low recois vs competitiveness at 600

[urbanrifleman]

It's a hoot to shoot all day and not beat yourself up.

Exactly. More PRACTICE. Less cost and recoil to the point you virtually practice all day.

 

[kzin]

If your swing speed is 68 mph and you play Tigers 110 compression ball made for his 125 MPH swing it most certainly will hurt you.

Forgiveness. That is the quality that is overlooked. A system that is forgiving. The 223 is forgiving in multiple ways. As is the 6BR. I recommend both.

So don't plan on hitting a XX shaft blade 3-iron over bunkers to tight pins?

What's the shooting equivalent of my 7 and 9 woods ?

 

[urbanrifleman]

When my friend decided he wanted to buy a long range rifle, he said he was going to get a 243 Ackley after spending weeks on the Internet studying the boards. HE said it was "the most competitive". I said, "no you are getting a 223". He argued that he didn't want a 223, he wanted a 243 Ackley. I said "well you are getting a 223, because when we go shooting I don't want you bitching at me to hurry up because you shot your 20 rounds (because that is all you can afford and you don't want to burn out your barrel) and I am still shooting 100 rounds plus while practicing. You will get a 223 so you can shoot as much as you want." He did. I was right. He thanked me profusely after that for making him get the 223. He has yet to outgrow it.

 

[swd]

I always considered a golf course a waste a perfectly good gun range but a 6BRX or Dasher is a hell of a mid range cartridge.

 

[johnnyi]

a 6mm 103,105,108,110 pick one fantastic round for 600 yards in Fclass. They are a ton of fun for anyone to shoot, to reload is on the low end per round. 30'ish center per bullet vs 6.5/7mm is 45'ish cents per round. 30-32 grains vs 41-60 grains or so for the big 7's. big winds of course the big bullets will have the advantage, but it will be very rewarding to learn and understand condition changes. with some practice and time you will be working your way through the classifications.

 

[mikegaiz]

If your swing speed is 68 mph and you play Tigers 110 compression ball made for his 125 MPH swing it most certainly will hurt you.

Forgiveness. That is the quality that is overlooked. A system that is forgiving. The 223 is forgiving in multiple ways. As is the 6BR. I recommend both.

I give up you win... You give great golf advice, which has SQUAT to do with shooting.

Forgiveness, really? The wind has no forgiveness??? Better BC is all the help you have.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I give up you win... You give great golf advice, which has SQUAT to do with shooting.

Forgiveness, really? The wind has no forgiveness??? Better BC is all the help you have.

Some guns are much easier to shoot, and shoot a lot. And reading the wind is better, and practicing to read the wind is what wins. Not ballistic coefficients.

I didn't know we were competing... But if we were, Ii would win... haha

Settle down. Just kidding.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I always considered a golf course a waste a perfectly good gun range

All golf courses are potential shooting ranges... haha (oh that is in very poor taste)

 

[foxguy]

The guns winning at 600 IBS matches (6mm) have almost no recoil, and with a Muzzle brake there is very little on any gun under 7mm.

I was under the impression that Muzzle Brakes were not allowed in most sanctioned matches
due to excessively loud muzzle blast very hard on hearing even with hearing protection.

 

[mikegaiz]

Some guns are much easier to shoot, and shoot a lot. And reading the wind is better, and practicing to read the wind is what wins. Not ballistic coefficients.

I didn't know we were competing... But if we were, Ii would win... haha

Settle down. Just kidding.

Nothing personal.. the purpose of most of these topics is to help share shooting skills with those asking for advice, I am a seasoned competitor and want to only give advice to make learning and competing easier for others. The last person I coached was rookie of the year in 2016 for the IBS 1000 yds. Our sport needs new shooters. I feel in shooting competitively the winning guns / cartridges are winning for a reason. Skill only comes in, in the processes, loading, and shooting. Some cartridges are more inherently accurate
and those will be found on the list of what is being used to win. So Why not start with one of them?

 

[urbanrifleman]

Lots of service rifle records set with 223. And it can win in FTR. Maybe in your sport its not the choice, but there lots of disciplines shooting from 600 NOT IBS.

 

[XTR]

The OP asked about F-TR, F-Open and AR tactical. As I wrote in my first post the AR tactical class is still provisional, anyone building something specifically for that class is subject to find that it's not allowed next yr, and I personally think it's the putt-putt of HP shooting (for you golfers).

Now, given the choice of F-TR or F-Open, both have low recoil rounds that can and do win against the bigger rounds every weekend.

I for one shoot a 223 in F-TR at mid range most matches. It has brought home hardware, more than a little. There is a post up there from another TN state champion that has won it with a 223. In F-Open Brian Bowling went several hundred shots for record over several weekends with a 6mm before he dropped a 9 last summer.

A 223 in an 18lb F-TR rifle or a 6Dasher/BRX in a 22lb Open gun is not going to recoil much. The 223 is more like small bore. With my 223 I can watch the trace into the target at 300 and 500. (at 600 on 42x it leaves the top of the picture in the scope so I lose it there. )

Pick one and shoot it. If you aren't winning it's not the chambering.

 

[kzin]

I was under the impression that Muzzle Brakes were not allowed in most sanctioned matches
due to excessively loud muzzle blast very hard on hearing even with hearing protection.

Thats definitely true for all the sub-disciplines of nra highpower.

I think it's true of bench rest also.

I think in precision rifle(PRS) and 3-gun you can have brakes. Maybe in some classes?

 

[KenOath]

6BR is very competitive at 600yds even against the 7mm in my experience, my son shot his first F Class fun match last week at 800m, I was calling wind for him he ended up with a 60-4X..

 

[Mulligan]

Pretty tough to argue with all the 600 and 1000 yard BR records set with a dasher.

Although i have a 284 for blustery days, if the wind is steady or “better” i will shoot my dasher every time at 600 or 1000.

Dasher or BRA

CW

 

[ShootDots]

I have been shooting F-Open since December of 2011. I have shot at several ranges in Texas, Louisiana, New York and now Arizona. I have shot MANY, MANY matches from 200 yard "fun shoots" to 300, 500, 600 and 1000 yards. I have shot almost everything from the 6mmBR to a 30-06A.I., along with several 7mms, 6.5s and Dashers. There are times throughout the year where a "BIG" heavy bullet will certainly outperform lighter ones. However, in my experience, those times are A LOT fewer than is lent out to be. More often than not, unless you have what I call "Stupid Wind", a SUPER accurate "lighter" cartridge will win against the larger bores, especially from 300 to 600 yards, and fairly often at 1000. They are A LOT more fun to shoot than getting "kicked around" for 75+ shots at an F-Open match. I have a "straight" .284 as my BIG gun. It shoots very well. However, after that barrel is toast, no more 7s for me.
Additionally, now that there seems to be an outpouring of VERY HIGH B.C. 6.5 bullets, the argument FOR the "lighter" cartridges seems to me to make more sense. There is little doubt that a BIG cartridge, that has an exceptional barrel, that shoots very accurately, can keep up with the lighter ones with HIGH scores, as well as X counts, especially at Mid-Range. But I would bet that these "exceptional barrels" are the rarity, not the "norm". At 1000 yards, especially in the wind, the big cartridges do have a decided advantage. However, I think that that is only in adverse wind conditions.
Over the "long haul" weekend in, weekend out, say for a solid year, they will keep up at 1000 and exceed the big ones at 600 yards on in. I think this is mainly due to 2 reasons: 1.) ease of fire over long shot strings and 2.) "generally" they will "out X" the big cartridges>>> like I said, if the wind is not too contrary!

 

[50bmg1979]

.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I build as many 6 BRAs for midrange as I do 284s for longrange. If I planned to only shoot mid range it would be a 6 BRA or dasher. If 1k was in the mix, 284. If your giving up the BC of the 284 you had better gain some raw accuracy in return otherwise its a lose lose.

 

[ShootDots]

I build as many 6 BRAs for midrange as I do 284s for longrange. If I planned to only shoot mid range it would be a 6 BRA or dasher. If 1k was in the mix, 284. If your giving up the BC of the 284 you had better gain some raw accuracy in return otherwise its a lose lose.

Question for you Alex.. If you can shoot the 6.5 150 SMKs and the Hornady 147 ELD-Ms, which have a HIGHER B.C., and not by a little, with the same level of accuracy as most .260A.I.s, 6.5 x 55A.I.s and 6.5 x 284s shoot with, along with a higher velocity, why would that be a "lose-lose" situation at 1000?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Question for you Alex.. If you can shoot the 6.5 150 SMKs and the Hornady 147 ELD-Ms, which have a HIGHER B.C., and not by a little, with the same level of accuracy as most .260A.I.s, 6.5 x 55A.I.s and 6.5 x 284s shoot with, along with a higher velocity, why would that be a "lose-lose" situation at 1000?

No. IF the 150s prove to be as accurate as a 284 with 180s it will be a good deal. You will have less recoil for equal ballistics. Barrel life will be a little shorter. We will see what kind of accuracy they will provide. The problem with the 6.5 in my experience which seems to mirror others I have spoke with is that the larger ones 260ai and up seem to get erratic. They dont agg well. The 6.5x47 will but there is no ballistic gain over a dasher at that point.