Lothar Walther barrels?

[X Count]

Has anyone had experience with these barrels?

- Are they PRS level accurate?
- I heard they are quite hard. Does that equate to longer barrel life?
- How have you found chambering and threading the harder steel? I'm used to 304 and 316 so the first time I touched 416 I was blown away by how soft it was. Happy machining 316 but wouldn't like to put a chamber reamer into it.
- Are they cut, button or hammer forged? Just thinking of residual stress for long shot strings and threading muzzle for break.

Reason I'm asking it they are available and about 20% cheaper than Krieger etc and extra barrel life wouldn't hurt

 

[butchlambert]

Button rifled. They have a grade of SS that is similar to 17-4 that requires more feed and speed to get a good chamber job. If you want a good barrel, it ain't worth saving 20%

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Just say no. Us mortal gunsmiths are not smart enough to chamber them according to LW.

 

[Matt_3479]

Not centerfire but my shooting partner has a lothar rimfire barrel and it hammers. It came prechambered. After shooting his, he’s now going to be testing a few more in different twists, and in centerfire. I’ll be helping him with the testing and running one of the barrels to see how they do. I wouldn’t personally worry about 20% when talking good barrel companies. I’m more curious on them to see if there barrel life is longer and if they will be a good option or not.

If your looking for barrels, and to possibly save a dollar check out KS arms and IbI. Ks arms barrels are incredible, and ibi has been laying down some awesome tubes for a bit now

 

[DaveTooley]

I've chamered some. They require a completely different mindset. Heavy cuts, kills HS chamber reamers and if you do decide to try one Moly-D is your friend. Only lube that helped. I still keep it around for tapping jobs.

 

[X Count]

Thanks for the info butch. Seems like 17-4 annealed has similar machining properties to 304 which is something I'm happy to machine but wouldn't like to to be pushing a reamer into.

It's not just about price but avalibility with the bonus of price at the moment.

I've had an IBI and don't put it anywhere in the same league as a dozen or so other premium barrels I've had. Plenty good enough for a really nice hunting rifle but the twist wasn't correct, lands poorly formed and the bore was on the larger size which made it fussy on bullets. Good value for a hunting rifle that is fantastic if it shoots consistent .4-.5 .

 

[X Count]

I've chamered some. They require a completely different mindset. Heavy cuts, kills HS chamber reamers and if you do decide to try one Moly-D is your friend. Only lube that helped. I still keep it around for tapping jobs.

Yeah you can't get away with fluff cutting 304/316 either. Just have to set your DRO with tool pressure and cut in consistent increments up to finish dimensions. We don't have moly D over here but rocol or rigid dark seems to work on those.

With advise from 3 experienced hands I think I'll pass on them. Thanks for your time!

 

[Carl S]

They are..heavy on reamers.you don't want to get greedy with them.accuracy wise I've got no complaints,shoot very well.

 

[jackieschmidt]

The Lothar Steel is a precipitation hardenning stainless, in the same family as 17-4.
I honestly do not know if it is Martensitic or Austenitic.
if you are going to chamber one, a carbide reamer might be your best bet.

It is assumed that because this steel is “tougher” to machine than 416R, or even typical chrome moly, it will last longer. Wear is not what kills barrels. It is throat erosion caused by the intense heat and pressure at that point in a barrel.

While you might get a little more throat life out of one of these, I doubt it is as substantial as claimed.

Lothar has a bad name in the Short Range Benchrest community, dating back a couple of decades ago when they attempted to capture that market. When Gunsmiths that specialized in that market read the chambering recommendations put forth by Lothar, most just said……”you gotta be kidding”.

But many of the Disciplines that are far more popular nowadays, such as F Class and Precision Rifle that tend to shoot long strings without cleaning every 10 shots might benefit from a barrel made from a steel that does process a little more resistance to the heat and pressure that is present in the throat region of a barrel.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The Lothar Steel is a precipitation hardenning stainless, in the same family as 17-4.
I honestly do not know if it is Martensitic or Austenitic.
if you are going to chamber one, a carbide reamer might be your best bet.

It is assumed that because this steel is “tougher” to machine than 416R, or even typical chrome moly, it will last longer. Wear is not what kills barrels. It is throat erosion caused by the intense heat and pressure at that point in a barrel.

While you might get a little more throat life out of one of these, I doubt it is as substantial as claimed.

Lothar has a bad name in the Short Range Benchrest community, dating back a couple of decades ago when they attempted to capture that market. When Gunsmiths that specialized in that market read the chambering recommendations put forth by Lothar, most just said……”you gotta be kidding”.

But many of the Disciplines that are far more popular nowadays, such as F Class and Precision Rifle that tend to shoot long strings without cleaning every 10 shots might benefit from a barrel made from a steel that does process a little more resistance to the heat and pressure that is present in the throat region of a barrel.

I remember them telling us to thread them at an outrageous speed, i seem to remember looking at the calc it would have been 1800rpm maybe, and reaming was even worse. They pretty much told us we didnt have the knowledge to chamber their barrels when we told them we usually thread and ream at less than 500rpm. I cant remember seeing one after that. They didnt shoot any better than what we could already chisel out

 

[butchlambert]

They do have 416 and CM available also.

 

[Matt_3479]

I've had an IBI and don't put it anywhere in the same league as a dozen or so other premium barrels I've had. Plenty good enough for a really nice hunting rifle but the twist wasn't correct, lands poorly formed and the bore was on the larger size which made it fussy on bullets. Good value for a hunting rifle that is fantastic if it shoots consistent .4-.5 .

How old is your ibi? I know a few years back they had some issues but from the past couple years they’ve really turned around there barrels, reputation and service that’s why I’m curious. I’m seeing more and more ibi’s shooting amazing the past couple years.

 

[X Count]

Jackie having as a quick look at the specs 17-4 vs 416 it looks like 17-4 has a higher nickel content which is probably what reduces the machinability. Would also reduce the melting point which could negate the additional strength properties https://www.makeitfrom.com/compare/...ainless-Steel/AISI-416-S41600-Stainless-Steel

I don't have a carbide reamer for this cal so not keen on destroying a HSS one.

Dusty have you run the numbers on what your supposed to actually run 416 at? It's also extremely high but the bonus is your can run it slow and it still looks good. 304 / 316 can be run fast or slow but it work hardens quickly so you need to keep, coolant up, tool pressure on and keep it cutting. Don't let it rub.

 

[X Count]

How old is your ibi? I know a few years back they had some issues but from the past couple years they’ve really turned around there barrels, reputation and service that’s why I’m curious. I’m seeing more and more ibi’s shooting amazing the past couple years.

About 18 months. Its not terrible, it shoots very well for the price. I just don't feel that for the price of the barrel, various components tested and time required to get it to that level it was good value for me. I hear a lot of people that are very happy with them but I found it a lot more fussy than Krieger, bartline, Broughton, truflight, pacnor and sheilen barrels I've had. The barrel was .6 of a twist out of spec and would only shoot bullets that have a pressure ring diameter .0003 or more above calibre diameter. So twist and bore dimensions are out of spec.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Jackie having as a quick look at the specs 17-4 vs 416 it looks like 17-4 has a higher nickel content which is probably what reduces the machinability. Would also reduce the melting point which could negate the additional strength properties https://www.makeitfrom.com/compare/...ainless-Steel/AISI-416-S41600-Stainless-Steel

I don't have a carbide reamer for this cal so not keen on destroying a HSS one.

Dusty have you run the numbers on what your supposed to actually run 416 at? It's also extremely high but the bonus is your can run it slow and it still looks good. 304 / 316 can be run fast or slow but it work hardens quickly so you need to keep, coolant up, tool pressure on and keep it cutting. Don't let it rub.

416 deliberately has a free machining quality with it’s added sulphur content. In fact, that is it’s reason for existence.



From a machinist standpoint, you cannot compare the machinability of 416 and any of the precipitation hardening Stainless grades In tool life, surface feet per minute, or any of the peramters that define machinability In steels.

We machine quite a bit of 17-4 at H1150. It would not be my first choice in making a rifle barrel.

But then, Lothar’s steel is not 17-4. I just believe it is some type of age hardenning stainless in the same family of steels.

 

[Will Henry]

I remember the instruction to polish the throat with a 600 grit paper as part of the process! I did no such thing on the LW barrels I chambered but did lap them after chambering to remove the feather edge on the lands in the throat. Contrary to LW claims, none of the LW barrels I fitted were exceptionally straight and were, in fact, mediocre in this regard. They shot well enough but certainly no better. I would not choose one for myself. I have used some other barrels which were difficult to machine and would hope they last lonnger so I didn't have to do it again! WH

 

[rijndael]

They'd probably be better if they were cryo treated

 

[butchlambert]

They'd probably be better if they were cryo treated

Chuckle chuckle

 

[contemax]

Button rifled. They have a grade of SS that is similar to 17-4 that requires more feed and speed to get a good chamber job. If you want a good barrel, it ain't worth saving 20%

They use x20cr13…nickel free..just use a good cutting oil and a good sweet spot for speed and feed according your reamers …17-4 has nickel inside that’s why is so hard on tools…

Button rifled. They have a grade of SS that is similar to 17-4 that requires more feed and speed to get a good chamber job. If you want a good barrel, it ain't worth saving 20%

 

[SKWERLZ]

I remember them telling us to thread them at an outrageous speed, i seem to remember looking at the calc it would have been 1800rpm maybe, and reaming was even worse. They pretty much told us we didnt have the knowledge to chamber their barrels when we told them we usually thread and ream at less than 500rpm. I cant remember seeing one after that. They didnt shoot any better than what we could already chisel out

Damn!
I thread at a pretty high rpm and that’s twice what I use.