Losing accuracy after 20ish rounds?

[D Coots]

Makes me feel better about my PD rifles.....

Later
Dave

 

[GetReal]

You said you have access to a bore scope. If you really want to get to the bottom of this I'd keep careful notes including bore images and repeat your experiment another 3x. You'll find a pattern in there somewhere. Scope between all shot groups. Yes, it will take some time but if you REALLY want to know that's what you need to do.

Or you can swap barrels and if it doesn't repeat then it's an unknown barrel issue and you can forget about it.

I'm not following why I'd repeat this 3 more times (for a total of 6x) when I've already had the exact same pattern happen 3x. Pattern on targets tells alot more than subjective, non-measurable "pattern" in the bore scope.

I dont disagree bore scopes are helpful, but I've scoped this bore alot. Same basic images all thru the 3 repeat patterns....same size groups for 1 - 10 rds and 11 - 20 rounds and 21-30 rounds.

 

[jelenko]

I'm a big fan swapping in known good/at least new parts to see if it makes a difference.
Some one above also mentioned the idea of trying a new barrel to see if it makes a difference.

 

[GetReal]

I'm a big fan swapping in known good/at least new parts to see if it makes a difference.
Some one above also mentioned the idea of trying a new barrel to see if it makes a difference.

CLE said a new Bartlein installed would be $ 1,000 ..... so I love the idea, but....lol

 

[Dusty Stevens]

CLE said a new Bartlein installed would be $ 1,000 ..... so I love the idea, but....lol

As much as i love CLE thats rediculous. I dont think i paid that much for my full match prep CLE upper alltogether.

 

[GetReal]

As much as i love CLE thats rediculous. I dont think i paid that much for my full match prep CLE upper alltogether.

They said they'd hafta "rent" a 6 Dasher reamer. They'd done my other Bartleins for 600ish. Guessing if I went to a 6 Dasher builder, I'd get a better price.

 

[jelenko]

CLE said a new Bartlein installed would be $ 1,000 ..... so I love the idea, but....lol

Yeah - that puts a crimp in the plan. CLE usually has good pricing.

What action is it? I'm thinking to try a prefit from someone like Northland Shooters supply for $300-$400 and put it on yourself.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

They said they'd hafta "rent" a 6 Dasher reamer. They'd done my other Bartleins for 600ish. Guessing if I went to a 6 Dasher builder, I'd get a better price.

I cant imagine having cle do a bolt action anyway. They gave you the “we dont do that, but if you insist” surcharge

 

[jelenko]

They said they'd hafta "rent" a 6 Dasher reamer. They'd done my other Bartleins for 600ish. Guessing if I went to a 6 Dasher builder, I'd get a better price.

Right, but renting a reamer would be ~ $50+.

 

[jelenko]

I cant imagine having cle do a bolt action anyway. They gave you the “we dont do that, but if you insist” surcharge

Right. They declined one that I asked about a couple years ago.

 

[DShortt]

I'm not following why I'd repeat this 3 more times (for a total of 6x) when I've already had the exact same pattern happen 3x. Pattern on targets tells alot more than subjective, non-measurable "pattern" in the bore scope.

I dont disagree bore scopes are helpful, but I've scoped this bore alot. Same basic images all thru the 3 repeat patterns....same size groups for 1 - 10 rds and 11 - 20 rounds and 21-30 rounds.

Simply to attempt to establish a specific cause. If you've already done this and can establish no change in the bore condition then I'd agree it's an exercise in redundancy. But. If the bore condition is remaining relatively stable then why the change in accuracy? Something is causing this. I like to find the cause of problems and understand them. Some guys just want the problem to be gone and go shooting. And I completely understand that.
All I'm saying is I'd want to understand exactly why I was replacing that barrel if it were mine.

 

[DShortt]

Right, but renting a reamer would be ~ $50+.

I've had horrible luck with rented reamers and will never do that again. Just me I guess but I go with what my personal experience has taught me.

 

[GetReal]

Simply to attempt to establish a specific cause. If you've already done this and can establish no change in the bore condition then I'd agree it's an exercise in redundancy. But. If the bore condition is remaining relatively stable then why the change in accuracy? Something is causing this. I like to find the cause of problems and understand them. Some guys just want the problem to be gone and go shooting. And I completely understand that.
All I'm saying is I'd want to understand exactly why I was replacing that barrel if it were mine.

Yes, I agree with you. I just don't see how yet more bore pics or repeating the test to get the same results will help me define the problem.

I think a better solution would be doing what both Berger and CLE recommended....the Kroil / JB Paste treatment. Then shoot some more groups.

I also tend to agree... b4 spending $600 + to replace a bbl, I'd wanna be sure tis a bad bbl.

 

[GetReal]

Yeah - that puts a crimp in the plan. CLE usually has good pricing.

What action is it? I'm thinking to try a prefit from someone like Northland Shooters supply for $300-$400 and put it on yourself.

Older Rem 700 SA.

 

[RDavies]

So, I've tested this 3 times and its held true each time....

Rds 1-10 groups about 1.25" (@ 100 yd, 5-shot grps)

Rds 10-20 groups 0.3 - 0.5" ( 2 grps of 5 rds)

Rds 20-25+ groups about 1.25"

Details:

6 Dasher F-class gun ... 32.0 +/- gr Varget... CCI 450 primers ... 2980-3000 fps... 105 Berger H.T.... Douglas 28" bbl 1: 7.5

I fl size, with neck bushings, anneal brass each time, careful brass prep, careful powder measure, LE Wilson chamber type seater dies etc etc etc

I don't understand how my "window" for accurate fire is only 10 rds wide. Is that typical?

I get "seasoning" a cold clean barrel. I get a fouled bbl loses accuracy. But I only get 10 rds accurate fire? With my other bolt guns its 30-50 rounds, and even suprpessed semi autos are 30+ rounds.

What gives? Do match shooters clean after every 10 rounds, typically?

Thanx.

While this is not typical, I have had some barrels like this in the past, actually I still use some occasionally. I have often found these barrels were very accurate for 22ish shots or so then just lost accuracy. Some were coppering up and this caused the velocity to climb over the node, but some barrels did not copper, but still apparently fouled out after 20ish rounds. Usually a clean would have them working well again and these early foulers often settled in after cleaning much sooner than regular barrels.

I managed these barrels by cleaning every target or so and they were usually very accurate after one fouler so I used them up at smaller comps or club days. This was with various powders in 6 Dasher, a mid sized 6.5, a 284 and a SAUM. Cleaning with abrasives did not seem to "cure" these barrels and nothing looked out of line with a borescope.

 

[Shiner Taste Tester]

So, I've tested this 3 times and its held true each time....

Rds 1-10 groups about 1.25" (@ 100 yd, 5-shot grps)

Rds 10-20 groups 0.3 - 0.5" ( 2 grps of 5 rds)

Rds 20-25+ groups about 1.25"

Details:

6 Dasher F-class gun ... 32.0 +/- gr Varget... CCI 450 primers ... 2980-3000 fps... 105 Berger H.T.... Douglas 28" bbl 1: 7.5

I fl size, with neck bushings, anneal brass each time, careful brass prep, careful powder measure, LE Wilson chamber type seater dies etc etc etc

I don't understand how my "window" for accurate fire is only 10 rds wide. Is that typical?

I get "seasoning" a cold clean barrel. I get a fouled bbl loses accuracy. But I only get 10 rds accurate fire? With my other bolt guns its 30-50 rounds, and even suprpessed semi autos are 30+ rounds.

What gives? Do match shooters clean after every 10 rounds, typically?

Thanx.

How tight is the barrel touqued into the action? I have seen some factory rifles act like this. When I removed the barrel from the action it was like the factory over tightened the barrel to set the headspace.

 

[GetReal]

How tight is the barrel touqued into the action? I have seen some factory rifles act like this. When I removed the barrel from the action it was like the factory over tightened the barrel to set the headspace.

Was torqued to spec with a torque wrench. I'll dbl check it.

 

[GetReal]

While this is not typical, I have had some barrels like this in the past, actually I still use some occasionally. I have often found these barrels were very accurate for 22ish shots or so then just lost accuracy. Some were coppering up and this caused the velocity to climb over the node, but some barrels did not copper, but still apparently fouled out after 20ish rounds. Usually a clean would have them working well again and these early foulers often settled in after cleaning much sooner than regular barrels.

I managed these barrels by cleaning every target or so and they were usually very accurate after one fouler so I used them up at smaller comps or club days. This was with various powders in 6 Dasher, a mid sized 6.5, a 284 and a SAUM. Cleaning with abrasives did not seem to "cure" these barrels and nothing looked out of line with a borescope.

On point. Thx.

 

[beemanjohn]

Since your gun is a Remington 700 I would order a new pre-fit barrel from @urbanrifleman for $298. It WILL shoot way, way better than that.

 

[Dgd6mm]

^^^^^^^^^^^ true