Loose bullets in 6ppc cases

[BoydAllen]

There is nothing wrong with Berger bullets. Have you measured many Bart's yourself? When comparing measurements taken by different persons, with different techniques, and equipment, to one ten thousandth, of something soft and narrow, like the pressure ring on a match bullet, the bullets could easily be identical, and the difference be in the measurements. Have you ever shot Bergers?
Boyd

 

[Frankr]

I'm sorry i cant resisit, Markhor you said you saw the bushing marks half way down the neck?

Here is a test that can be done, take a fired case and put a little sizeing lube on the neck, now hold the case upright on your work bench, Take your .264 bushing in your hand and put it over the case mouth,gently tap the bushing onto the case neck with a small hammer,you will be able to see how far you tap it down, say half way down or so. then pull the pushing off,it will come back off you may have to gently grab it with a pair of pliers.
this is the poor mans method, a long nail to decap the primer and just tap a bushing on to neck size.I find my engraveing hammer works very well with this method.

 

[dhighlan]

Outdoorsman:
Please post any response you may get from either email as I would love to hear what they have to say. I went back to check some new Bergers(108 target, 105 vld, 95 vld, 68, 65, and 62) and guess what? all had a pressure ring greater in size than the shank. Measuring was fairly precise from .2434 to .2435; any difference I attribute to the method of measurement, not the tolerance of the bullet.

 

[artbosco]

There is nothing wrong with Berger bullets. Have you measured many Bart's yourself? When comparing measurements taken by different persons, with different techniques, and equipment, to one ten thousandth, of something soft and narrow, like the pressure ring on a match bullet, the bullets could easily be identical, and the difference be in the measurements. Have you ever shot Bergers? Boyd

Finally received a reply from Walt Berger. Based on his response, it looks as if he needs to set up some kind of training program for his customer service reps / bullet technicians:

"All of our flat base bullets will have some kind of a pressure ring. Many of us feel this helps seal the bore and eliminates gas blow by.

Walt Berger
Berger Bullets
Technical Adviser"

 

[artbosco]

There is nothing wrong with Berger bullets. Have you measured many Bart's yourself? When comparing measurements taken by different persons, with different techniques, and equipment, to one ten thousandth, of something soft and narrow, like the pressure ring on a match bullet, the bullets could easily be identical, and the difference be in the measurements. Have you ever shot Bergers? Boyd

Yes, I've measured Bart's bullets, and yes something soft can give you different measurements, especially when measuring out to the fourth decimal place and when the force we apply each time to the measuring tool varies. A friend once gave me a box of Berger bullets. Tried them, didn't like the results, and never went back. I'm not a fan of mass produced bullets regardless of brand. I use them only for fire-forming new brass to keep the cost down.

As you know, a lot of what we use is very subjective, and boils down to a matter of taste, and what one feels confident in using. And confidence in ones tools and consumables, is in the end, the only thing that matters. Our recommendations are just that, recommendations. Everyone needs to try different products, to see what suits their goals, and then rule, in or out, what they'll use in the future.

 

[BoydAllen]

The 68 gr Berger has been my favorite bullet to get friends started with the 6PPC. In all cases, following my directions about seating depth (For a couple of them, I set the die.) we have been able to arrive at a load that would produce some groups in the teens, on days when the wind was very favorable. I have use those bullets for that purpose because I know that they are made with the same jackets that most small production bullets are made from, and because I have some faith in their quality control. New shooters, that have previously only reloaded for non-benchrest purposes, may choke a little at the thought an expense of buying bullets at a thousand, or even 500 at a time. Part of this is that if they have just aquired the rifle, scope, rest, reloading equipment, and flags they may be reeling a little at the accumulated cost. In any case, being able to order a box or two, along with other things from Sinclair, Bruno, or Haydon, has been a way to slow the rate of expenditure for a little while, and still get them up and running at a competitive level of accuracy. For me, that they do not include pressure ring specifications in their catalog, or that some employees are a little green about this subject, is no big deal. The bullets work, and they are easy to get. Over the years, I have been lucky enough to have both attended, and competed in a number of matches that Walt participated in. Any time that I got to spend talking to him was always one of the highlights of the day or weekend. They don't make them any better. I suppose that this is one reason that I continue to look with favor on products that bear his name. This is not to throw rocks at any bullet maker. I know several. They all make good bullets, mostly with J4 jackets. For me, some shapes are easier to tune than others. We are lucky to have so many choices. End of commercial.
Boyd

 

[Julien]

A few months ago I had the same thing happen to me in my 6ppc It also has a 262 neck .

Once I got set up and shot a few cases fireforming some new brass I took some fireformed brass that I had just annealed to work up a lod with some 68gr bergers .

The exact same thing as the OP described happened to me , once I seated the bullet it was loose I could pull it out with my fingers.

My friend was with me and thought I should try a smaller bushing I went down at least 4 thous and it was doing the same thing.

So I told my buddy this dont make sense and he suggesred trying the cases I had just fireformed.

It was fine with the freshly formed cases so I guess I must have annealed the cases a little to much.

Once I got home I ran all the annealed cases through a full lenght die 3 times each with an expander to work harden the brass a bit.

When I tried that brass again it was fine,so my conclusion was I had over annealed the brass.

 

[Gabe]

Boyd man nice reply, and good read on this post. I also have had the pleasure of talking with walt about bullets and bullet Dies. He truly is a book of knowlidge. He also gave me good tipps on Bullet making and what dies to get to make benchrest Quality Bullets. Gabe

 

[fdshuster]

Been using the Berger #24411 68 gr. since 1998 when I had my first 6ppc built. Over the years have tried others, even the hard to get custom, that always seem to be on back order.

Yes, the customs have shot well, but for me, no better than the good old, ever reliable Bergers. And the Bergers are available for less than $25/100 & available everywhere.

Means a lot when you have 13 years of exposure to a bullet, have used them in 4 different 6ppc chamberings, and 6 or 7, 6BR chamberings, and they never let you down. The same high quality, with no surprises. My standard lightweight "go to" 6mm bullet. Thank you Walt for making a consistant high quality bullet.

 

[bozo699]

Been using the Berger #24411 68 gr. since 1998 when I had my first 6ppc built. Over the years have tried others, even the hard to get custom, that always seem to be on back order.

Yes, the customs have shot well, but for me, no better than the good old, ever reliable Bergers. And the Bergers are available for less than $25/100 & available everywhere.

Means a lot when you have 13 years of exposure to a bullet, have used them in 4 different 6ppc chamberings, and 6 or 7, 6BR chamberings, and they never let you down. The same high quality, with no surprises. My standard lightweight "go to" 6mm bullet. Thank you Walt for making a consistant high quality bullet.

Frank,
I agree 100% I have been using the same bullets as you in a 6brx for a year and now in my 6ppc with amazingly good results, I use to hate the name Berger until I learned how to tune them, Now I use them in a lot of different chamberings and Walt is never to busy or good to return a email or phone call, great guy and great bullets, I thank you also Mr. Berger
Wayne.

 

[largemouth1]

Have you removed the expander button from your resize die??
I learned the hard way. I could not figure out why the neck stayed the same when changing bushings. Redding lesves the expnders in their dies when shipping

Goog luck !!