looking into a scale for .00 grains.
- Thread starter Doug30racer
- Start date
Out of interest only - a Scott Parker beam scale will react to one kernel of varget. The things I don't like about beam scales are - easy to bump the arm ( is it now reading the same), have to now dump a case back in to check it is still zero. You have to zero it and then move the weights which disturbs the arm - does it now still sit on zero? And finally don't dare breath while measuring it'll move.
BTW by the time you buy a beam scale and then Scott Parker it, you are into pretty decent money.
Lotsa faff with a beam scale to make sure its doing its thing correctly and "most importantly" it is slower.
BTW by the time you buy a beam scale and then Scott Parker it, you are into pretty decent money.
Lotsa faff with a beam scale to make sure its doing its thing correctly and "most importantly" it is slower.
Don't worry I believe he forget to take his meds. If you have a good scale you will see the powder granules weigh pretty close to each other. The point of a scale with two digits of readability is the scale will be way more accurate. If a single digit scale drifts one digit up or down it is off by plus or minus a tenth. If a double digits scale drifts two digits up or down it is still way more accurate. The speed of the scale also helps with how much time is spent weighing powder. Matt
I think you might misunderstand the way most of us use our powder scales. First of all, exact accuracy is much less important than some folks assume. Nobody I know calculates the absolute maximum charge which is just shy of turning the action into shrapnel and then loads to that figure by trusting the accuracy of their scale to prevent the big boom. People generally work up in careful steps to find their maximum charge weight and it doesn't matter if the unit of measure is grains, grams, or mouse poops as long as the scale is repeatable which is something quite different from "being accurate".
When it comes to endangering those around you, I would say using a bench next to a shooter who uses a good scale is not as risky as using one next to a guy with a bayonet on his rifle. Don't laugh. That happened to my yesterday.
I use a GemPro 250, which costs about a quarter of the FX-120, but it does measure to a resolution of .02 grains. I can't speak for the absolute accuracy of my scale, but accuracy is secondary to precision and repeatability for my purposes. I could (and sometimes do) measure my loads to a precision of plus or minus a tenth of a grain, but when it comes to shooting a .223 in F/TR competition at 600 yards, I prefer to use plus or minus .02gr in an attempt to maximize my scores.
In fact, when I measure perimeters like muzzle velocity ES and SD, there is a significant improvement with rounds loaded to the nearest .02 grain as opposed to those which I load to plus or minus a tenth of a grain. How much low ES and SD numbers help group size is open to debate but generally speaking, the guys who win claim that consistency is important for enjoying precision when the bullet passes through the target, and that's where it counts.
One can argue the relative importance of the many steps we go through during the reloading process, but most folks agree that charge weight is one of the more important factors we can control and it's also one of the easiest to measure with reasonable precision and a reasonable amount of effort.
Measuring powder to plus or minus a tenth might be just fine, even for competition. But if it's OK, it's certainly not OK by a wide margin. Since measuring to a few hundredths of a grain is nearly as easy as measuring to a tenth and, if you're willing to learn the quirks of a Gem Pro 250, not much more expensive, many of us elect to do just that. Some prefer more expensive scales (and actions) than I use, and that's just fine too.
Perhaps weighing powder to a few hundredths only provides a warm fuzzy feeling, but when it comes to competition the importance of a warm fuzzy feeling is not to be discounted.
I gotta' go now and get back to weight-sorting my primers.
sparker
Silver $$ Contributor
I had no interest in posting to this as the scales that I supply are not graduated in the increments specified in the original post. However, since I was mentioned by name, I shall.
The beam scales that I supply are not new. They have been around since the 1960s. While there is certainly no Hi-tech element to them, they have stood the test of time. As they are analog instruments, they require a higher level of acumen to use. They are elegant in their simplicity. They are quite sensitive, so drafts need to be avoided. (taken care of with a simple box) The way one uses a beam scale effectively for weighing powder charges is like this:
1. Zero the scale and test.
2. Set the scale to read the desired charge weight.
3. Adjust powder thrower ( I like the Lee) to throw half a grain light.
4. Trickle up the remainder of the charge until the pointer line is level with the zero line on the scale body.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4.
I use an Omega automatic powder trickler from Dandy Products. This uses a photo sensor and a light source positioned in a bar that saddles the scale beam. When the beam interrupts the light path, the circuit shuts off and trickling stops. This takes approx. 8 seconds. In that time, I am seating a bullet in the previous case.
A wooden base can be easily constructed which will add considerable stability to the position of the scale. Think: small plank with two dowel pins and a hole for the leveling foot for an Ohaus scale, or two slots and a hole for a Redding. I have yet to find this necessary however. That said, I imagine that beam scales get bumped more often than digital scales simply due to our perceptions. We imagine that digital scales are sensitive pieces of equipment that use delicate electronics so we are very careful around them. Whereas we recognize beam scales to be mechanically robust and do not exercise the same care with them.
In my background as a chemist, I have used many types of scales, mechanical, digital and hybrids. I could use any scale that I desired to weigh my powder charges. I use a beam scale that I have calibrated and tuned. I receive several calls each month from shooters ready to take a hammer to their digital scales. I am happy to end their suffering.
Scott Parker
Bakersfield CA
VLD223@yahoo.com
661 364 1199
The beam scales that I supply are not new. They have been around since the 1960s. While there is certainly no Hi-tech element to them, they have stood the test of time. As they are analog instruments, they require a higher level of acumen to use. They are elegant in their simplicity. They are quite sensitive, so drafts need to be avoided. (taken care of with a simple box) The way one uses a beam scale effectively for weighing powder charges is like this:
1. Zero the scale and test.
2. Set the scale to read the desired charge weight.
3. Adjust powder thrower ( I like the Lee) to throw half a grain light.
4. Trickle up the remainder of the charge until the pointer line is level with the zero line on the scale body.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4.
I use an Omega automatic powder trickler from Dandy Products. This uses a photo sensor and a light source positioned in a bar that saddles the scale beam. When the beam interrupts the light path, the circuit shuts off and trickling stops. This takes approx. 8 seconds. In that time, I am seating a bullet in the previous case.
A wooden base can be easily constructed which will add considerable stability to the position of the scale. Think: small plank with two dowel pins and a hole for the leveling foot for an Ohaus scale, or two slots and a hole for a Redding. I have yet to find this necessary however. That said, I imagine that beam scales get bumped more often than digital scales simply due to our perceptions. We imagine that digital scales are sensitive pieces of equipment that use delicate electronics so we are very careful around them. Whereas we recognize beam scales to be mechanically robust and do not exercise the same care with them.
In my background as a chemist, I have used many types of scales, mechanical, digital and hybrids. I could use any scale that I desired to weigh my powder charges. I use a beam scale that I have calibrated and tuned. I receive several calls each month from shooters ready to take a hammer to their digital scales. I am happy to end their suffering.
Scott Parker
Bakersfield CA
VLD223@yahoo.com
661 364 1199
Last edited:
SteveOak
Gold $$ Contributor
I could see the beam of the 10-10 moving with the addition of each granule. It went from below the upper line to above it.
eric n
Silver $$ Contributor
Do you guys who have the fx 120's ever feel like you want to upgrade? (excluding a Prometheus)
I'm going to buy the a&d tomorrow but I now know how far I'm going into this reloading madness and don't want buy another scale. I will gladly pay more this time then upgrade later down the road. How does it compare to a sartorious entris 64?
I'll do better then a hammer Scott... I'm going to put a bullet in my gempro when I get your scale. I just wouldn't feel right selling it to someone.
I'm going to buy the a&d tomorrow but I now know how far I'm going into this reloading madness and don't want buy another scale. I will gladly pay more this time then upgrade later down the road. How does it compare to a sartorious entris 64?
I'll do better then a hammer Scott... I'm going to put a bullet in my gempro when I get your scale. I just wouldn't feel right selling it to someone.
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