Looking for input on 90VLDs

[XTR]

I'm playing with my 600 yd F-TR rifle. I've gotten this rifle to shoot pretty much anything I've put in it really well.

The rifle is built on a Savage F-class, I reshapped the stock to fit my needs as a TR rifle and rebarreled it into a 223.
Barrel is a 28: 1:7 McGowan prefit with a Wylde chamber, I throated it with a 1* throater to seat the 80Amax with the bearing surface above the junction.

I've fired this rifle with Nostler 80s seated for my White Oak upper jumping them something huge. I use these just to warm the barrel and get a zero when I go to do work at 300 yards, typically they print about .5.

I've fired it with 80Amax running 2800 over Varget, shots .3 or better
Ive fired it with 80Amax running 2900+ over N550 shot .3 or better

I've fired OCW ladders with 90VLDs over Varget and N550, (MVs ranged from mid 2700s with the lowest Varget load to high 2800s with N550) I've tried seating -0.010 and jam +0.010 and I've never seen any rifle scatter bullets so badly. We're talking about 3MOA scatter, by the time I shoot 30 rounds of OCW shots with Varget and N550 it looks like my buddy patterned his turkey gun . Shooting multiple "groups" at 300 yards on the same sheet of white roll paper with pasters as aiming points it got to the point that I couldn't identify which shots went on which dots. Then just to prove that I'm not losing my mind a grabbed 3 Amax's and put up a 1" group on the corner of the page (300 yards).

The VLDs are seated up with an OAL of 2.6+. I haven't started testing with jumps of 20 or 40 yet but I'll take suggestions. It's not the scope, gun or operator, at least the other loads I've tried say it's not.

Any suggestions other than seating depth tests?

 

[FroggyOne2]

First,

I think that your choices of powder are the wrong ones. Varget is to fast and I am of the feeling that N550 is too slow. As you well know, that I have gotten my best results with RL15 and 2000MR. With the 2000MR your going to be around the 27.0gr mark with the bullet ten thou in. Bring me 25 cases to turn the necks, I am fixing to do a few myself. And bring me some wax too, I am out!

 

[manitou210]

XTR I am in Canada my home range is Connaught Ranges in Ottawa we are able to practice twice a week at 900m and shorter distances to 300 m.
There is 4 of us all shooting 223 Rem with 90gr VLD Bergers just got our bullets today after waiting 6 months.
I am going to my third barrel first two ran 3000 rounds others the same The longest lasting barrel with least throat erosion was a 29" Hart 1/7 twist, Next best was Tru Flite 1/7 30" Kreiger throat was gone the fastest also 1/7 twist.
Actions are Rem 700s, Barnard, and Defiance machine and a Savage. we use Nightforce 12by 42x benchrest model scopes & Sightron 10by 50x most are using Robertson stocks.
had a reamer made by JGS them new cases and had bullet seated where I wanted base of 90gr just a few thousands below neck shoulder junction, this allows you also to use JLK 80 or Berger 80.5 seated kissing lands very accurate combination with Varget, Rl15 VT 540
We have tried all seating depths and like you mention jumping 90gr VLDs they just don't work
YOU MUST USE 90 GR Jammed to work 15k + speed we are getting are same as you 2750 to 2800.
We only use Lapua brass, all neck turned and primer pockets inside out uniformed, CCI BR or Gold Match primers
CCI 450 mag will give less velocity. NOTE YOU MUST WEIGH CHARGES WITH A GOOD ELECTRONIC SCALE, RCBS CHARGEMASTERS ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. if you don't you will have elevation problems.
I will not use anymore double base Powders they are very hard on throats nitroglycerin in VT powders are very hot. and we have all blown primers in the hot days of summer in Ottawa, this Monday was 42c
our Eastern Canadian Championships are this week end 3 day shoot 174 rounds needed, ranges are 7,8, & 900 m
no pulling targets
Only powder I have found to work consistently is Varget friend uses Rl 15 been there done that! RL15 can go squirrely in very hot days.
We shoot on the IFCRA 1/2 moa targets, 2 sight-rs 15 for score, these 223 usually skin the .308 out to 600 m. friend shot a 75 with 14 V bulls t 300 and he shot a 75 with 13 v bulls at 600 (80.5 gr Bergers pointed on Hoover bullet pointing system, There is nothing you can do to your reloads than pointing, we have electronic targets and they give speed of bullet when passing through target and pointed bullets will shoot 3/4 moa higher than none pointed bullets.and faster speeds at 900
Last year at Connaught shooting 90 VLd shot a 75 with 12 V bulls at 900m there was only a half MOA wind
Then I fired some non pointed bullets keep them in bull 10"except for two 4s not close in V count to the pointed.
Don't give up on 223 it is a fabulous, and so easy to shoot, I have let the cat out of bag for the 90s so many shooters gave up on them.
For short distances, 300m these 223 take no back seat to the 6ppc or the 6br the 223 with 90gr with 551 BC + gain for pointing just are way better than 68 to 100gr 6mm bullets, try some 80.5 Bergers around 2950 fps and see what happens at 300m I have seen one day with light winds these 80.5 shoot 5 shot groups at 300 .520 2 groups at .600 and nearly all groups 1" or smaller.
As you probably see I am high on 223 and if more people would build these and take out there wives, Daughters & Sons and grand children to ranges thy all will enjoy shooting and want to shoot them again and F class will grow
If you are ever in Canada in Ottawa come and take a look at Range might be the nicest in the world.
Main range 900 m has 75+ targets
Sorry for been so long winded
manitou

 

[XTR]

Another quick test.

As I usually do I shot 3 shots with something that I had loaded so I wasn't doing a cold bore shot in the test. The bottom right group is 3 shots with Nostler 80s at 2900FPS, this load is not set up for this gun, it's set up for my White Oak Service rifle and only a little over mag length. I'm going to have to go and see how far it's jumping but I'm betting at least -0.060. In any case the 1st and 2nd bullets effectively went in the same hole, the whole group is under .25MOA

The rest of the groups are with Berger 90s, MVs are listed. The lower two were some stuff I had loaded from a ladder jamming 10 that didn't get shot because I hit pressure so I pushed them back to -0.030 and -0.040 just to see what they'd do.

The upper groups were shot right to left. The first group jammed +0.010 looked good at about .25MOA, and the 4th shot would have been in there, but the next two went high and wide.

The upper left group is +0.015, same load as the +0.010 loads. Vertical is great, but the over an MOA spread is bothersome.

I just sold off a load of Berger 308s that I could never get to shoot, I am not a tinkerer, I really hate doing this much load work to try to get these things to work.

If I could figure out something at the -0.040 range that would be great, the MVs not jammed are way better than jammed.

 

[XTR]

Believe it or not I think I have found a sweet spot jumping 0.030.

Jumping gets me about 100 FPS more MV w/o pressure signs. I'm going to try to work with this.

 

[swed6.5]

Keep us updated, I went back to the 80 vld's because every time I thaught I found a good load with the 90's the next test showed scattered results as well. On paper at 200 they looked great my deviation was petty good on paper at a 1000, made me wish I never tried them.

 

[XTR]

I took the load out and gave it a try at 600 this morning. Total junk. At least two MOA of horizontal and a min and a half of vertical. Shooting in an almost no wind condition.

Torqued the scope and the action before I started just to be sure the gun was good

I'm going to anneal and do some brass prep an go back to jamming and see how it does. I won't be able to get the velocity I am looking for jammed but if they will shoot they shoot inside of the 80s at 600 but I'm not going to use them at 800 or 900.

 

[bdale]

Shooter at our club uses BLC-2 powder and gets great results.

 

[tenring]

I have a factory competition class Savage LRPV in .223 7 twist, with currently 2,500 rounds thru it. I tried the 90 gr. Berger VLD, with Varget, and they shot well, but not as good as the moly coated 80 gr. VLD. I am able to stay in the ten ring consistently at 100 and 200 yards. Wind and mirage are big factors after that.