Looking for advice on 6br build

[Captk]

My name is Ken, I just joined the board. I plan on retiring in the next few years and have been putting together some rifles for informal target shooting. I just came across the info about the 6MM BR and WOW I am excited about this cartridge. I already have a 6.5 Creedmoor(Savage 12 LRP) and 7MM-08 (both bull barrels) setup for bench shooting. I want to add a 6MM BR to the collection. I have several Savage rifles with accu-triggers I will select from for the actions and possibly stock. One is a Savage 10FP in 308, I can use the action and I have a new factory BVSS stock. I also have a Savage 12 BVSS in 308 that I can use as well.
What I am looking for is recommendations on barrels, dies and bullets. I will use Lapua brass. I am not going to compete with the rifle, just informal bench shooting at 100/200 yds. I was looking at Criterion, McGowen and Shilen barrels (Varmint profile to fit the stocks I have). Both barrels are available in 8 twist with 26" and 28" length to choose from.
I need to purchase dies as well, any suggestions?
I have a variety of powder to use, 4895, 4350, Norma 203B, Win 760 and Hodgon 380. From what I have read so far the 4350, 4895 and Norma 203B will all work with the correct bullet weights. I would also like some Varget powder but can't find any. I am also having a problem finding 6MM bullets in stock.
I am trying to keep this affordable so will use the Varmint Profile barrels that will fit the BVSS stocks I have unless there is a reason to use the bull barrel (which I would prefer). I will only shooting 100 / 200 yds as that is all that is available for me here on Long Island, NY.
Thanks, Ken

 

[DeltaBravo]

Ken,

First of all, invest in a good set of wind flags and learn how to read them!!!

I'm shooting a Shilen 8-twist ratchet-rifled 24-inch bull barrel on a Shilen DGV action, Jewell trigger (set at 3 ounces) and a McMillan Edge LV stock. I have had success with the 80 grain Berger FB Match Varmint, 65 grain Berger columns, 65 grain Barts Ultimate, and 68 grain FB Bergers. All shoot well with 8208-XBR, but I've also had success with BLC-2, H322, Varget, CFE-223. My chamber is the .270 no-turn neck and the Lapua 6BR Norma brass only gets a clean up before fire forming. All bullets are loaded to "touch" except the really little ones. I use a Redding bushing FL sizing die and either .266 or .267 bushings. I also have the Redding Micrometer seater, but am currently using a Wilson/micrometer with a 21st Century arbor press. I also use a Harrell's powder measure so I can load at the range.

If you're planning on shooting VFS, I'd go with a 30BR for the larger diameter bullet. They're winning everything here at Austin Rifle Club monthly matches, but my 6BR holds its own if I do my part. In fact, my new barrel (on order from Shilen via The Barrel Man) is a 14-twist ratchet rifled 24-inch S7 varmint contour. I plan to shoot the lighter 65-ish bullets in this for the reduced recoil. My Shilen DGV uses a barrel nut like your Savages and I have the Go/No-Go gages.

Good luck and welcome to the forum.

Dennis

 

[Captk]

Thanks for the info. I'm looking for the parts I'll need plus reloading supplies. It's a little confusing, I find 6mm BR Remington and 6MM BR Norma.
The brass and barrel are both listed as 6MM BR Norma. Are the 6MM BR Remington dies the same thing as 6MM BR Norma and 6MM BR?
I am also having a hard time finding the 6MM BR go / no go head space gauges in stock. I see PTG makes them but the few places that list them are out of stock. Are these the correct head space for the 6MM BR Norma?
Thanks, Ken

 

[lpreddick]

my 6 mm br is my alltime favorite gun to shoot! i had one built 10 yrs ago and made a mistake....an 8 twist barrel and i planned on shooting targets and varmints under 400 yds. the 8 tw is for long heavy bullets and i did not understand the concept of seating bullets so that they engage the lands, often .010-.020. i tried again and got it right! kreiger 14 tw light varmint barrel (a rem varmint contour would work), custom action(single shot). pillar bedded and jewell trigger, sightron scope. custom bullets weighing 62-68 gr are inexpensive and powders can be found. the light bullets love LT 32, n133, benchmark and the 68s shine with 8208 XBR or n140. this gun shoots one hole with more different weight bullets than several others together. you will have fun!

 

[DeltaBravo]

Ken,

I was as confused about the 6BR/Norma/Remington thing too. It's pretty much a given that anything "6BR" nowadays means Norma, but just make sure you know what you're getting from the barrel maker! Brownell's has the Clymer gages and they're what I use.

You're going to LOVE the 6BR! Mine shoots just about anything except the 87 V-Max!

Dennis

 

[Captk]

I should be OK with the 8 twist barrel? That's what is offered by McGowen, Shilen and Criterion for the pre-fit savage barrels. I can also have a barrel made but that might be a long wait. My understanding is the 8 Twist will handle the light and heavy bullets. I want to be sure I get the right barrel. I'll make a few calls tomorrow and see what else is available, if any. The 6mm bullets are pretty hard to find as well.
I checked Brownells and the headspace gauges are in stock.
Thanks, Ken

 

[DeltaBravo]

Ken,

My 8-twist Shilen has about .060 or .070 free bore. The 80s can be loaded to touch with about 1-caliber inside the neck. For the lighter bullets, I have to settle for some amount of jump, and while that works "OK" it's not optimum. If you can specify the free bore, go with about 20 to 40 thousandths and you "should" be able to shoot the smaller/shorter bullets. I would also go with the varmint contour so that if you want to shoot official competitions, you'll have an easier time of it making weight.

Try bullets.com, grafs.com, and some of the custom bullet makers for bullets.

Dennis

 

[Shynloco]

I should be OK with the 8 twist barrel? That's what is offered by McGowen, Shilen and Criterion for the pre-fit savage barrels. I can also have a barrel made but that might be a long wait. My understanding is the 8 Twist will handle the light and heavy bullets. I want to be sure I get the right barrel. I'll make a few calls tomorrow and see what else is available, if any. The 6mm bullets are pretty hard to find as well.
I checked Brownells and the headspace gauges are in stock.
Thanks, Ken

Welcome aboard Ken,
You sound like me about 11 yrs ago when I pulled the plug and retired. And one thing you'll find that "eventually" happens with this love of shooting that we all share, is you slowly but surely learn the ropes of finding various pieces of equipment and gun parts, plus which vendor has what and offers the best price. And since you mentioned the potential conversion of rifles you already have and intend to primarily shoot 100 - 200 yds, I've got a considerable amount of practice, because that's what I did. In fact, all I have anymore are Benchrest style shooting rifles. And you mentioned you are looking for 6mm bullets but are having difficulty locating them. Might I suggest you take a look at Bart's 68gr Ultras that are perfect of 100 - 200 yd target shooting. One of my Benchrest Rifles is a Savage Model 12 Benchrest that has (or I should say had because she's at my Gunsmith's getting a new 1:13.5 Krieger because of the distance I shoot) a 1:8 twist barrel that shot exceptional groups using Bart's 68gr Ultras being pushed by VVN133. After 4000 rds that barrel called it quits and hence the current barrel change. Now Sinclair International sells Bart's bullets in 100 bullets packs or you can get them in 250 ct from Brunos or 500 ct from Bart's directly. As for the barrels themselves, any one of the barrel manufacturers can make you a barrel, but it can take almost forever to get one. So learning the retailer who supply them is your fastest method of obtaining one if the manufacturers doesn't have any immediately available. One of my last Kreigers took them almost 8 months to make for me , while a phone call to Brunos got me one in 5 minutes. So it';s a matter of just figuring out what you want or need and considering your options for making it happen.

Finally, good luck as you approach the "finishing line." Retirement is great for several reasons, one being is you can hit the range and go shootin whenever you want, weather permitting. Holler if I can assist you in any way as many helped me out when I became more seriously involving in precision shooting. Lots of bright people up here with experience that can save you $$$ as well so ask.

Alex

 

[GSPV]

If you are confident that you will only shoot 100/200 yards, get a 14 twist and get it chambered for the 65-ish bullets. The Berger EUWIN or Column are good examples. N133, H322, and LT-32 are your friend.

If you think that you might shoot long range, get the 8 twist and get it chambered for the 105-108 class low drag bullets. Varget, N-135 and Reloader 15 are the powders. Suggest using CCI 450 or Tula/Wolf SRM primers.

If you are somewhere in between, a 10 twist is great. The Berger 87 VLD, 90 BT and especially the BIB 95 are your best friends. The 95 needs 104 freebore to stay off the donut. Varget, H4895 and IMR 8208XBR are the go to powders.

With all that said, since you have a Savage and if you stick to the 100/200 realm, an alternate, somewhat more adventurous route would be to get a PPC bolt head from Pacific or Butch Lambert and get a 14 twist chambered for a no turn 220 Beggs. Basically, you would buy Lapua 220 Russian brass, 220 Beggs dies, and tell McGowan, Criterion, Shilen or PAC or that you want a 14 twist 220 Beggs prefit. I.e., no difference from a 6 BR. Berger mid 50-ish bullets, Benchmark, N133 or LT-32 would be killer. Cheaper, less recoil and a slight, but noticeable advantage in accuracy at 100-200.

 

[lpreddick]

the point about freebore is very important. my original 8 twist was throated for the heavier bullets and i tried shooting the 68 at 100 and 200yds...i had to jump them and if i found a good load and small group i was elated. several months later these previously loaded rounds would not shoot the same. this is a problem with jumping bullets and there are many ideas as to why. there seems to be an accuarcy relationship between bullt weight and twist...8 tw/105s, 14 tw/68 gr are known to be very accurate. bruno's is a great source for barrels as is the marketplace here...i have bought two kreigers priced lower than bruno's . 6 mm bullets come up for sale on the marketplace reguarly and at good prices. i'm sure by now that your trigger finger is itching. good luck.

 

[jonbearman]

6BR norma dies from redding are all stamped 6BR remington. I dont know why but the dies are interchangable.They havent updated the stamping to read 6BR norma for some reason so dont sweat it.

 

[Captk]

Thanks for all of the great info. I called about the barrels today and all they stock are the 8 twist. I can order a slower twist but prefer to get something in stock, I don't want a 16 week wait time end up taking 32 weeks. here are both 26" and 28" barrels available. I am assuming 26" should be fine. I am trying to keep the costs down so I think a 8 twist Criterion or Shilen Savage pre-fit will be what I get for a barrel. I will use the 105/107 gr bullets and try some lighter bullets to see how well they can group. Other folks have done well with lighter bullets in the 8 twist barrels. I have some Wolf SRM primers and an assortment of powder to use.
I'll see what else I can find out in the next day or 2 and then make a decision and start ordering.
Thanks, Ken

 

[Captk]

I found McGowen offers a 12 twist 6br Norma in stock. I still think the 1/8 is the way to go, I can shoot all bullet weights.
Are these dies the correct ones and does anyone have any experience with them. Most of the dies I have found are sold out.
HORNADY 6MM REMINGTON BR SERIES IV FL 2-DIE SET

Thanks, Ken

 

[jrm850]

You might think about getting a bushing type resize die at minimum, and a micrometer seater sure makes seating depth changes quick and repeatable.

If you want to stick with Hornady, they do make a bushing sizer - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/925396/hornady-match-grade-new-dimension-bushing-full-length-sizer-die-6mm-br-bench-rest?cm_vc=ProductFinding

A couple more options:

Redding - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/286682/redding-type-s-match-bushing-2-die-set-6mm-br-bench-rest?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Whidden - http://www.whiddengunworks.net/reloadingdies.html

Forster makes a bushing die and a micrometer seater also. They will probably be a pretty good value. The bushing bump die comes with three bushings which usually cost about $15 each. I have used the Forster seater and like it well enough, but I have never used the bushing sizer. I'm not even sure if they use standard Wilson sized bushings.

I personally still use the same Wilson seater I bought 20+ years ago that has been reamed from 6br rem, to 6 Dasher. I bought a Whidden sizer when I switched to a Dasher and don't have bad word to say about it. I like the threaded seaters fine but I can feel the neck tension issues better with the Wilson.

Sorry... more to think about.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Captk, I know this is not what you are looking for, but I will throw it out there anyway. I have a Savage PTA RBLP with a shouldered 26" Krieger 1-8 twist that is throated for the 105's with 800 rounds down it that I will sell at a reasonable price if you are interested, if so send me a pm. I bought this rifle for the stock with no intentions of shooting it, all rounds were put down it from the fella that had it built. The word is it shoots real well out to 800 yards. I have all the load data also.


Don Dunlap

 

[NateHaler]

Get the fast twist (1:8") barrel. It will almost certainly shoot the lighter bullets very well, and you'll be able to shoot the heavies. Not so if you go with the slow twist.

26" vs. 28" barrel length doesn't matter a lick. Neither Carl Bernosky nor Tony Boyer would be able to tell the difference in accuracy between them.Flip a coin, or buy whichever is less expensive and readily available.

Varmint vs. "bull" contour doesn't matter either. Get whatever will fit in your stock. And unless you intend to compete in benchrest matches, IMO you don't need to get obsessive about reloading, wind flags, or any of that. There's shooting from a bench, and then there's competitive benchrest shooting. In the latter, you'd want a 6ppc and much more specialized (and expensive) gear.

One of the many nice things about the 6BR (Norma) is that you can buy factory ammo for it. Not cheap, but compared to the cost of equivalent components and the time you spend loading your your own, it's a bargain -- unless you enjoy reloading instead of mowing the lawn, washing the car, bathing the cat, and putting rat traps under the house in your spare time.

 

[Tim Singleton]

As some others have advised. You really ought to go with a 12 or 14 twist.
I have a mcgowen 12 twist that loves 80gr bergers
The problem with a prefit is the throat. They use a reamer designed for the twist. They figure if your buying an 8 twist you plan to shoot long heavy bullets
You won't be able to get much of a land engagement with lighter bullets.
Try Jim at Northland shooter supply he usually has a nice selection of pre fits in stock as well as barrel nut wrenches

 

[Captk]

As some others have advised. You really ought to go with a 12 or 14 twist.
I have a mcgowen 12 twist that loves 80gr bergers
The problem with a prefit is the throat. They use a reamer designed for the twist. They figure if your buying an 8 twist you plan to shoot long heavy bullets
You won't be able to get much of a land engagement with lighter bullets.
Try Jim at Northland shooter supply he usually has a nice selection of pre fits in stock as well as barrel nut wrenches

I was able to find a 12 McGowen from McGowen listed as in stock. I have already changed a few savage barrels so have all of the tools, got them from Jim at Northlander. Jim has both Shilen and Critereon barrels with 1/8 in stock, all other twists are special order. I planned on shooting the 87gs - 107gr bullets. he ranges here on Long Island only offer 100/200 yd shooting but I might get a chance to try a range at 600 yds.
I think at this time the 1/8 makes the most sense. Before I order the barrel, what bullet weights would work well with a 1/12 twist barrel? It may be a long time before I get to a range longer then 200 yds.
Anyone have experience with the Barnes Match Burner 105 gr bullets?

I do appreciate everyone's feedback. I have found everything I need except the dies and bullets in stock.

 

[NateHaler]

Cap, some shooters will opine that you can "overstabilize" a bullet by spinning it too fast. Me, the idea that something can be overstable is like saying one can be too rich or too good-looking. I'll take my chances with overstable.

Unless a bullet is lightly constructed, like varmint bullets such as Sierra's Blitz or Speer's TNT -- which are designed to fragment on impact to blow up poor, defenseless rodents -- the idea that you would overspin a bullet to detriment of performance is bogus IMO. These lightly constructed bullets could fly apart at high revs. But methinks you'll be shooting quality target bullets, which are constructed to stay in one piece, and will do so even at extremely high revs.

Consider that John Whidden defied conventional thinking when he won a national championship using a Palma rifle (i.e. .308 Win) with a 1:10" bore twist, rather than the typical 1:13". And the big advantage to the faster twist is that it will shoot heavier bullets very well, while being very accurate with lighter bullets too. If you want to shoot 87-107 grain bullets in 6BR, then IMO you should only get a 1:8" and stop thinking about it. Move on to the rest of your list. 8)

Dies are easy. I think you should consider Lee dies to begin with. They are inexpensive and work very well. Then while you're getting to know your gear and load performance, you can keep your eyes peeled maybe for gently-used stuff, whether Fortner or Redding or Wilson or whatever floats your die boat.

Lastly, your profile says you're in NY. (My condolences...) Beware, with the recent trend espoused in a couple of 'For Sale' posts on this Forum, some members are unwilling to send stuff to buyers in NY and CA, even though said stuff is perfectly legal and presents zero additional issues to the seller as the sender of such goods. So, welcome again, and watch out for the kooks, some of whom seem to be among us.

 

[Captk]

I've never been accused of being too rich or too good looking.

I ordered the head space gauges and 2 boxes of Lapua brass and 2 boxes of Barnes Match Burner 105 gr bullets. The go gauge went backorder, waiting to hear back from Brownells about estimated delivery
That should be a good start, I'll look for the Lee dies. I'll order the barrel next, my choice is either McGowen, Criterion or Shilen.
Ken