Looking at an older cnc mill

[matthias]

I was browsing my local classified website and saw a 1999 Viper 950 Verical CNC mill for sale. Price seems reasonable but I know zero about cnc machines.

Would I be better off getting a new machine or learn on one like this? I have manual machines and I am interested but not real sire where to start with the cnc stuff. Thanks for any advise and info you can provide

 

[MUP]

If you know nothing about CNC to begin with I might ask if the seller would offer some training with the deal? I would also ask to see a demo of the machine running, if possible, before investing the time and money of buying and getting it set up.

 

[shortgrass]

For a 24yr old CNC mill, you probably can't get parts. It's obsolete........ I wouldn't have it, unless you enjoy searching for obsolete parts and making electronic/electric repairs. If you're new to CNC, consider a machine with conversational programing.

 

[Walt Krafft]

Don't do it. It is one small electrical glitch from being scrap and moving it is very likely to create that glitch. A cnc mill is at its best when doing repetative parts or cutting contours. To program contours you will probably need drafting and programming software. These can cost thousands of dollers PER year and have a large, long, learning curve. Your local comunity college would be a good place to learn what it takes to use a cnc mill.

 

[MUP]

Also, check hours of run time. Our full shop continues to run 20+ year old Haas VMCs with very little down time. For a hobbyist a new machine is a very large investment, and used is the viable alternative, you just have to do your research and not make a hasty decision and you could find a gem of a machine at a good price.

 

[shortgrass]

Don't do it. It is one small electrical glitch from being scrap and moving it is very likely to create that glitch. A cnc mill is at its best when doing repetative parts or cutting contours. To program contours you will probably need drafting and programming software. These can cost thousands of dollers PER year and have a large, long, learning curve. Your local comunity college would be a good place to learn what it takes to use a cnc mill.

I think I'd do as Walt suggested, get some CNC education before looking to buy a machine. Just make certain it's "good" education, not someone who taught themself. Night classes at the community college, first. When buying any CNC , training and support should be at the top of the list.

 

[shortgrass]

A year ago we went looking for a 'newer' manual vertical mill to replace the one we use for one-offs and when the CNCs are tied-up. We ended up buying a 10x54, 5hp knee mill with a factory installed, 4 axis CNC controller, that was only 3yrs old, for less $$ than the manual vertical mills at that auction sold for (the rotary table was included). There are 'deals' to be had other than buying obsolete 'scrap'. By the time we rented a forklift and our travel and time expenses to go get it 125 miles away, we still ended up with less than $9000 in it. Even then, after a month and a half, we had to change out the drive ($575 + core exchange and shipping for a rebuilt). Had another problem we had to deal with, and had to figure out ourselves with the help of a tech over the phone, that had us down for a few days searching the problem out, but ended up being a simple repair. Thanks to good tech support for their help and having re-built drives on hand. I could remove and install the drive myself (took several pics and made sure wiring was labeled), and the phone tech at no charge for the 'boot-up' problem. Runs like a new one. The unit had on-line training at no charge, also. Our first experience with CNC knee mill and conversational programing ( previous experience with bed mills and G code_) A few differences in set-up between bed and knee. There are deals to be had on newer equipment, but they might not be just right down the street. "Obsolete" can and will wear ya' out!

 

[matthias]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences. I checked with the local collage and they now offer a beginning class for cnc training. I will spend my money there instead of jumping in with both feet on an unknown machine. I have become a believer in buying with support. If I can't get parts or support , or I have to jump through several hoops to get those I'm out.

On Monday I'm going to talk to the collage about the class and start dates. Again thank you all.

 

[std7mag]

Any idea how many times it "crashed"?
And no mistake, you WILL crash it!

We have a 2004 Mazak 250 that seems to get crashed weekly.

Even our guy that's been with the company & doing this for 36 years had a crash a few weeks ago on a Haas ST35. Boring bars don't like to drill.

Our Haas EC400 gets crashed about every other week.

How bad of a crash depends on the operator.

 

[mauser284]

I was eyeballing an old Hexadecimal NC mill a few years back. Deal feel through. I used one like it back in High School and it was a low hours low volume unit. Sadly kids came first! LOL

 

[WSnyder]

It’s one thing to keep a 20yo HAAS running but quite another to keep an old Viper running. There’s lots of parts and knowledge available for an old HAAS. As others said I wouldn’t recommend it ( the Viper). I had an old Tree CNC knee mill I initially repaired and kept running. Sold it because I could see keeping it running was going to get harder and harder as time went on. I help out and keep my buddy’s HAAS’s running when needed. I am not a CNC repair guy by trade but am electromechanical repair by trade but different industry.

 

[Kurz]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences. I checked with the local collage and they now offer a beginning class for cnc training. I will spend my money there instead of jumping in with both feet on an unknown machine. I have become a believer in buying with support. If I can't get parts or support , or I have to jump through several hoops to get those I'm out.

On Monday I'm going to talk to the collage about the class and start dates. Again thank you all.

I'm glad to see that you've opted for the community college CNC training program. I believe this is a much better idea for your pursuit than just jumping into buying a machine without much of any support or instruction. Learning CNC programming and understanding the machine processing is not difficult but it takes time and you make mistakes while learning.

Hopefully the Community College will offer the next advanced class after you get through this one. It's addicting once you develop a grasp of the initial concepts! I taught at the Community College here for several years and enjoyed every day with the students. It was always a good challenge.

Remember that any of the small changes in a program can create big problems. Always read the program and run a tool path diagnosis.

Enjoy the process!

 

[matthias]

Got in touch with the community collage and went over the course they offer. Seems reasonable , going to see where it goes.

 

[boltfluter]

Definitely take a few CNC programming classes before you purchase a machine! I have a few friends who purchased the CNC lathe or mill first, and it didn't go well. Programming is a different world compared to manual machining. Not impossible, just very different is all. Good luck and have fun! I enjoy every day in my shop.
Paul

 

[butchlambert]

My Uncle Bill has a Bridgeport 3 axis CNC mill and it can be run as a manual mill. He bought it new from a high school shop that closed before it was used. Bill has played with it and probably has less than 10 hours on it. Yes it will come with tooling.



Unless that he has changed his mind $7500 will buy it. He can load it.

 

[SecondsCount]

My Uncle Bill has a Bridgeport 3 axis CNC mill and it can be run as a manual mill. He bought it new from a high school shop that closed before it was used. Bill has played with it and probably has less than 10 hours on it. Yes it will come with tooling.

View attachment 1442203
View attachment 1442204
Unless that he has changed his mind $7500 will buy it. He can load it.

What year is it? Those controls don't look all that new either, the brushed DC motors are a bit dated.

 

[butchlambert]

Best if I PM contact. I can't answer you questions.

 

[X Count]

My Uncle Bill has a Bridgeport 3 axis CNC mill and it can be run as a manual mill. He bought it new from a high school shop that closed before it was used. Bill has played with it and probably has less than 10 hours on it. Yes it will come with tooling.

View attachment 1442203
View attachment 1442204
Unless that he has changed his mind $7500 will buy it. He can load it.

I'd love to have something like this or a prototrak at home. Something with a conversational controller and that can be used as a manual or CNC.

 

[dakor]

I was browsing my local classified website and saw a 1999 Viper 950 Verical CNC mill for sale. Price seems reasonable but I know zero about cnc machines.

Would I be better off getting a new machine or learn on one like this? I have manual machines and I am interested but not real sire where to start with the cnc stuff. Thanks for any advise and info you can provide

I would sign up for his free academy and watch his youtube videos titans of cnc.

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You will learn a lot.

 

[DRK]

I'd love to have something like this or a prototrak at home. Something with a conversational controller and that can be used as a manual or CNC.

We have a Prototrak in the tool room at work.

Recently, we had to change a board and a couple cables in the controller. That alone was $2k + with us doing the work. If you have electronically controlled equipment, be aware it is going to break, and parts are expensive. Allen Bradley tells you to expect to replace every piece in your control system on a rolling five year basis.

Something to think about if it is not making you money. We are a large company and use the prototrak for one off and repairs, the $2k was not a lot to fix it, but it likely is on a personal level.