Long range shooting with 45 70.

[two dogs]

WBoggs, interesting you mention the 44 1/2 because I have visited the CPA website recently and was impressed. CPA builds a replica 44 1/2 in Pennsylvania. Seems a strong action and the idea of easily interchangeable barrels is very attractive. However, I read an older (2010) entry on BPCR forum complaining of poor quality control at CPA. Does anyone know of this problem and if its been corrected or not?

The Browning highwall is again a consideration. I had heard of the trigger problem and eliminated Browning based on that, but Roland has pointed out a simple fix for that problem. I live in Utah and Browning is considered a local compnay here. (Ironic, because Browning's firearms have been manufactured in Belgium and more recently in Japan by Miroku. Adding to the irony, I think Browning is now owned by Winchester and Winchester in turn is owned by the Belgian company that once manufactured firearms for Browning. FN, I believe.) About fifteen years ago, I took a young Labrador retriever to run the derby at a field trial held in Busch Gardens, St Louis, MO. Had a Citori with me. The vent rib had been bent while beating about in a soft case on a windy day in a duck boat. I took the shotgun to the Browning factory there and they were so surprised to see someone from Utah at their door, they straightened the bent rib, reconditioned the shotgun and shipped it to my home free of charge. Needless to say, I have a soft spot in my heart for Browning.

On the subject of the Marlin, owning and shooting a Marlin 1895SS in .45-70 was what led me to look at the Pedersoli Quigley (now called the Special Edition Sharps) in the first place. The Marlin .45-70 weighs just over 7 pounds while the Pedersoli weighs over 13 pounds, almost twice as much. Weight is one way to deal with the recoil issue that XTR has so vividly pointed out "and you won't be shooting for a week because your shoulder feels like you got hit with a 10lb sledge." Quote from XTR.

Mike

 

[XTR]

twodogs, you'll be better off asking your questions on castboolits.com, shilohrifle.com, and a little on the ASSRA.com, forums. The folks who play with these.

If you are seriously looking for a long range BPCR any of the three, a Sharps '74, a Winchester BPCR (not the regular line of 1885s) or a CPA will give you a rifle that can win if you can shoot it, (Ballards to, but they are an expensive custom version of the highwall), but you are going to have to learn to cast bullets and load the Holy Black. There is a whole 'nother process to learn. Casting, alloys, hardness bullet, lubes, wads, grease grooves or paper patches, if you're serious about shooting long range you probably want to look at a 45-90, you can get a 45-70 up to scratch with a reduced first band, but the additional volume in a 45-90 makes it easier to get a 535 or heavier bullet up to speed.

 

[Lapua40X]

My guess is that the large capacity of a 45/ case is most effective with a slow burning powder and black powder burns very slow.

Select an area where there is no audience and nothing can be set aflame (like an abandoned runway) and lay a ten foot thin trail of power, with smokeless powder for half the distance and black powder for the other half. While making sure you're fifty yards away and using a remote ignitor, light it off in the center and see which is the "slow burning powder"

 

[XTR]

My guess is that the large capacity of a 45/ case is most effective with a slow burning powder and black powder burns very slow.

Select an area where there is no audience and nothing can be set aflame (like an abandoned runway) and lay a ten foot thin trail of power, with smokeless powder for half the distance and black powder for the other half. While making sure you're fifty yards away and using a remote ignitor, light it off in the center and see which is the "slow burning powder"

I missed that one.

Black powder is explosive, literally, it's regulated differently than smokeless. The difference is that it's not as efficient as smokeless, a small percentage of BP is converted to gas, where as nearly all smokeless is converted to gas. That is why BP leaves so much fouling. When shooting BP you will learn a new term "obdurate"; it's what happens to a cast bullet when it gets hit in the arse by the explosion, it deforms and fills the bore, smokeless won't do that.



The problem for loading smokeless in the old straight walled big bores is that like most cartridges they work best loaded to capacity. The burn rate that works best is in the range of Reloader 7 and IMR4198 or IMR3031. Varget has been used but the barrel looks like you left 1/4 teaspoon of unburned powder in it; however, you load a case full of Rx7 and sit behind it. It will get the attention of the people on both sides of you; they will be being glad they are not taking that beating.

 

[wboggs]

twodogs You have gotten a lot of information. The next step is to go to a BPCR match and
watch them in action, you will be very surprised. The shooters will be very happy to
meet you and answer your questions. BP is a lot more work than smokeless but not
too bad when you get the routine down. I found casting a chore but many times
there is a shooter who will cast your bullets to help pay for his.
Bill

 

[45bpcr]

Two Dogs,
45-70, 45-90, 40-65
I shoot the 1st two and my Darling wife shoots a 40-65.
My Browning Creedmoore is a 45-90, my Sharps is a 45-70, my Wife shoots a Browning BPCR in 40-65.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAw8h5Qao5Y

I screwed up on this relay as I was trying to shoot eyes on the rams and the mirage shifted.

45bpcr

 

[Hombre0321]

My guess is that the large capacity of a 45/ case is most effective with a slow burning powder and black powder burns very slow.

Select an area where there is no audience and nothing can be set aflame (like an abandoned runway) and lay a ten foot thin trail of power, with smokeless powder for half the distance and black powder for the other half. While making sure you're fifty yards away and using a remote ignitor, light it off in the center and see which is the "slow burning powder"

Not a fair test and will provide you no usable information. Black Powder burns at the same rate weather in a case or setting in your pile. Smokeless powder does not act that way. Loose smokeless will burn at a dramaticly slower rate in a pile, than it will confined in a case.

Roland

 

[Hombre0321]

twodogs, you'll be better off asking your questions on castboolits.com, shilohrifle.com, and a little on the ASSRA.com, forums. The folks who play with these.

If you are seriously looking for a long range BPCR any of the three, a Sharps '74, a Winchester BPCR (not the regular line of 1885s) or a CPA will give you a rifle that can win if you can shoot it, (Ballards to, but they are an expensive custom version of the highwall), but you are going to have to learn to cast bullets and load the Holy Black. There is a whole 'nother process to learn. Casting, alloys, hardness bullet, lubes, wads, grease grooves or paper patches, if you're serious about shooting long range you probably want to look at a 45-90, you can get a 45-70 up to scratch with a reduced first band, but the additional volume in a 45-90 makes it easier to get a 535 or heavier bullet up to speed.

XTR, While Ballard does build a replica of the 1885 Highwall, that is not there main rifle. The rifle that Ballard is known for is the Ballard model 1875, this is a complettly different rifle than a Winchester Model 1885 Highwall. The Ballard #7 Long Range is a great rifle for shooting at distance, Caliber choice for me would probably be the 45/90 but I would look hard at the 45/100 and the 45/110 as well. In a Ballard 1875 smokeless is just not an option in my opinion.

You are right about the learning curve. No Black Magic loading Black Powder, it is simple and straight forward but you have to educate yourself.

 

[Hombre0321]

WBoggs, interesting you mention the 44 1/2 because I have visited the CPA website recently and was impressed. CPA builds a replica 44 1/2 in Pennsylvania. Seems a strong action and the idea of easily interchangeable barrels is very attractive. However, I read an older (2010) entry on BPCR forum complaining of poor quality control at CPA. Does anyone know of this problem and if its been corrected or not?

CPA The builder of the replica of the old Stevens 44 1/2 is a great company. Paul Shuttleworh is the owner and knows these falling block 44 1/2 actions down to the smallest detail. I have over the years had Paul build me 5 Steven's 44 1/2 rifles. His daughter Gail does all of the stock work, and she works magic on a piece of Walnut. There is no problem what so ever with CPA's quality control, if it leaves them it is going to be right the first time. I would not hesitate to order another one today.

Roland