Long Range MuzzleLoader recommendations

[savagedasher]

They now have air guns shoot 3000 fps with a 250 gr bullet
And muzzle loader even faster
3 shots at 300 at a half inch

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

dkhunt, I was referring more to the common 45 or 50 cal front-stuffers available off the shelf. Even CVA's new 22" twist front-stuffers will drift a bunch at 300yds with their new Powerbelt projectile. They have yet to release any G1/G7 numbers on that projectile.

Have had the Savage ML since circa 2000. It has very good accuracy at 200yds, but even still the wind can play h*ll with a 250SST at that distance and beyond. Mostly, I hunt mature hardwoods and long shooting just doesn't happen.

 

[284winner]

No its not. My buddy builds them and they shot them at Williamsport. Typical 5 shot groups at 600 are 2 to 3 inches. At 100 yards they are one hole guns and many groups in the zeros and ones. He even shot a 3 shot group at 1000 of three inches. These guns really shoot. A 400 grain slug at around upper 2000's fps. Matt

I was actually talking about the energy at 300-500 yards matching that of a 300 win mag.

 

[284winner]

It may well be illegal there...idk. I'm not advocating hunting illegally either but it does seem like a hard law to enforce. What do they do, have you pull the breech plug and dump the powder out?

Yes

 

[Webster]

Looking to purchase a Long range muzzleloader for a whitetail hunt later this year.

Is there anyone who has personal experience with them?


Thank You

Ryan

https://read.nxtbook.com/pgc/huntingtrapping/20182019/deer_hunting_regulations.html

PA laws any long ML 44 caliber or larger. Nothing mentioned about powder type. The bullet drop from a .44 or .50 cal ML past 250 yrds has to be like a brick. Is there a ballistic calculator program for these big bullets. Are you shooting cast lead or jacketed bullets. How many hunters could honestly hit a deer at 500 yrds standing with a .243 Win? I will see if I can plug some numbers into the Berger prorams.

The biggest bullet in the Berger program is a .338 250 or 300 gr bullet. Per the chart for 250 gr .338 bullet at 2650 MZ 54" drop at 500 yrds. A 45 cal bullet would have more drop.

 

[scallop]

Check out Pittman bullets. He specializes in smokeless muzzleloader bullets. He has many offerings with BCs of .400 and better. I only have experience with 45 caliber smokeless muzzleloaders, but it's not hard to get a 300 grain, 45 caliber bullet to go 2800 fps in a 26" barrel. The 275 grain bullets easily reach 2950 fps in the same barrel length.

 

[hammerjack]

Most people are not shooting 250 SST or other crap in there new " Long Range ML ".
A lot are running Parker Match Hunters :
275 with .384 BC
300 with .420 BC
325 with .453 BC
I'm running the 275 in my old Savage smokepole I installed a new Pac-Nor barrel on. I have mine humming
along around 2750 with H 4198 which is slow compared to a lot of folks up around 3000.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Smokeless mz's are very impressive. Frankly, I'm surprised more people on this site haven't played with them. Aside from the aforementioned areas where they can't be used and the few traditionalists left out there, they are the only way to go, IMO. Savage needs to step up production along with marketing. They have a really good thing going there but have not done well with marketing them. Just look on this thread at the people who have little or no knowledge of their existence. The Savage is impressive but the customs are light years ahead if you can stand the price. You have to pretty much forget everything you've ever heard and thought about muzzle loaders and start with an open mind. Be ready to have your mind blown by what they can do.

 

[284winner]

Smokeless mz's are very impressive. Frankly, I'm surprised more people on this site haven't played with them. Aside from the aforementioned areas where they can't be used and the few traditionalists left out there, they are the only way to go, IMO. Savage needs to step up production along with marketing. They have a really good thing going there but have not done well with marketing them. Just look on this thread at the people who have little or no knowledge of their existence. The Savage is impressive but the customs are light years ahead if you can stand the price. You have to pretty much forget everything you've ever heard and thought about muzzle loaders and start with an open mind. Be ready to have your mind blown by what they can do.

Years ago I considered seriously about buying one of the original "Ultimate Muzzleloaders" made by Ken Johnston of Michigan ( which i think all other companies followed). We spoke and I was so close to getting one and decided I couldn't justify the cost with having so many other toys(guns) I play with. Read all the ballistics and realized those Parker bullets really do give precision rifle like accuracy. Read stories of elk kills at 800 yards etc. Saw various live kill vids with his guns and they were no joke. They flat out did what they said they did. Killed at Extreme long range( for Muzzleloaders). I know Remington bought the name and of course watered down that performance but the gun looks and operates the same. For me, a typical muzzleloader shot is no further than 200 yards max. My White super 91 will do that very easily. I'll stick with the breech load rifles for the long range work but am still in Aw over the sheer accuracy and performance of those modern front stuffers.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Years ago I considered seriously about buying one of the original "Ultimate Muzzleloaders" made by Ken Johnston of Michigan ( which i think all other companies followed). We spoke and I was so close to getting one and decided I couldn't justify the cost with having so many other toys(guns) I play with. Read all the ballistics and realized those Parker bullets really do give precision rifle like accuracy. Read stories of elk kills at 800 yards etc. Saw various live kill vids with his guns and they were no joke. They flat out did what they said they did. Killed at Extreme long range( for Muzzleloaders). I know Remington bought the name and of course watered down that performance but the gun looks and operates the same. For me, a typical muzzleloader shot is no further than 200 yards max. My White super 91 will do that very easily. I'll stick with the breech load rifles for the long range work but am still in Aw over the sheer accuracy and performance of those modern front stuffers.

Me too! When ya think about all the brass prep and such that we do for cf...all that is gone and made better.

 

[carnivore]

And enjoy Encore accuracy verses that of a bolt action.
So how accurate is a Encore at +300yds? (as the OP is looking for)
Topic is "Long Range Muzzleloader", not assumption runs rampant.

Have any data or experience that prompted your inquiry?

 

[deadeye4]

in the new real sml mz world regarding long range etc these guns are a slam dunk out to approx. 500yds. in the right hands>> 600+ yds.
many experienced long range bench shooters have shot some awesome groups out to 1,000yds in near perfect conditions but if wind is present the need for excellent wind reading/calling is a must-this seperates the men from the boys in this game.

in our friendly shoot which consist of 100,200,300& 400yd line/3 shot groups for group & score//Precision & accuracy the winner at each distance is usually around .25 moa sometimes less/ sometime more due to conditions/wind etc..... avg. moa is usually around .5moa out to 400yds. the winner is a combined best aggregate placing much like scoring at piedmont.

our Pittman Mz bullets are benchrest matchgrade mz bullets as I have spent some time trying to cull but really not needed in our application.

most mz bullets are flatbase for better sealing(obturation) & work extremely well.
just like anything the moon is the limit & there are in existence many smaller calibers & things like direct ignition & full forming/engraved bullets not discussed prior in this thread-its up to a individual to learn & go for what their needs are.

link to pittman bullets & these bc #'s are real world/field conditions etc>
https://www.pittmanbullets.com/aeromax-452-muzzleloading-bullets/

take a look at 40 cal>

https://www.pittmanbullets.com/aeromax-402-muzzleloading-bullets/

 

[Sniper338]

Buy a black power rem 700 action, get a new custom barrel spun up, fit it with a stock.. theres a guy on here that builds them. Cant remember his screen name. They are suppose to be really good shooters, better than you can buy a factory anything.

 

[XTR]

... Savage needs to step up production along with marketing. They have a really good thing going there but have not done well with marketing them. Just look on this thread at the people who have little or no knowledge of their existence. The Savage is impressive but the customs are light years ahead if you can stand the price. ....

Savage doesn't makes them any more, and I doubt that they will. The problem with a muzzle loader is that there is no stupid limiter like there is on a cartridge. With a cartridge stupid is limited by case capacity. Obviously it's not a guarantee, but it's at least something. With a ML there is nothing to prevent you from making a pipe bomb and blowing it up while you hold on to it. That has happened. Savage was sued, and I am not sure but I think they may have lost at least one case. Thus there is no longer any manufacturer that makes smokeless MLs that I know of.

 

[savagedasher]

I don't think Savage makes them any more, and I doubt that they will. The problem with a muzzle loader is that there is no stupid limiter like there is on a cartridge. With a cartridge stupid is limited by case capacity. Obviously it's not a guarantee, but it's at least something. With a ML there is nothing to prevent you from making a pipe bomb and blowing it up while you hold on to it. That has happened. Savage was sued, and I am not sure but I think they may have lost at least one case. Thus there is no longer any manufacturer that makes smokeless MLs that I know of.

I think savage stop making them was because of the lack of sales
Supply and demand

 

[dkhunt14]

https://read.nxtbook.com/pgc/huntingtrapping/20182019/deer_hunting_regulations.html

PA laws any long ML 44 caliber or larger. Nothing mentioned about powder type. The bullet drop from a .44 or .50 cal ML past 250 yrds has to be like a brick. Is there a ballistic calculator program for these big bullets. Are you shooting cast lead or jacketed bullets. How many hunters could honestly hit a deer at 500 yrds standing with a .243 Win? I will see if I can plug some numbers into the Berger prorams.

The biggest bullet in the Berger program is a .338 250 or 300 gr bullet. Per the chart for 250 gr .338 bullet at 2650 MZ 54" drop at 500 yrds. A 45 cal bullet would have more drop.
View attachment 1084467

The 45 caliber bullet is going faster then that and they are heavier.. These are custom bullets with high BC. They take a piece of the barrel and make a die to size the bullet for that barrel. It also puts the grooves in them. If you seen one shoot, you would be impressed. They are not shooting offhand. They are shooting off rests and bipods. Matt

 

[1holeaddict]

Smokeless mz's are very impressive. Frankly, I'm surprised more people on this site haven't played with them. Aside from the aforementioned areas where they can't be used and the few traditionalists left out there, they are the only way to go, IMO. Savage needs to step up production along with marketing. They have a really good thing going there but have not done well with marketing them. Just look on this thread at the people who have little or no knowledge of their existence. The Savage is impressive but the customs are light years ahead if you can stand the price. You have to pretty much forget everything you've ever heard and thought about muzzle loaders and start with an open mind. Be ready to have your mind blown by what they can do.

After speaking to two custom gun builders the above comment is 100% SPOT ON!! I myself had no clue of how these guns have evolved and the performance they are getting out of them is simply mind blowing..
They are pushing 300 grain bullets in the range of 2700-3200fps.

 

[hogpatrol]

Heard from a reliable source, last evening, Savage MLII/Pac-Nor .45, 200 SST, saboted, 220 yards, 62gr H4198, late in the day, shot a doe broadside, two fell, DRT.

 

[Hotrod6.5]

I shoot a Hankins 45cal built on a Remington action, Brux barrel, Manners T4 stock, and Nightforce 8-32x scope. This rifle shoots a 325gr Pittman AccuMax bullet at 2872fps generating almost 6000 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. Accuracy with this rifle is unbelievable out to the limit of my shooting range of 400 yds. At 400 yds with this load I regularly shoot sub MOA groups. Recoil is intense but i built this for hunting Kansas during the mid September ML season where my setups were more for rifle shooters. Over the years i have taken some great bucks but the biggest deer i saw were out of range and this is why i built the smokeless rifle. The deer i shot this year was at just 230 yds and dropped in his tracks. the wound is on the entry side and there was not an exit. The rifle is a hammer.

 

[hogpatrol]

I shoot a Hankins 45cal built on a Remington action, Brux barrel, Manners T4 stock, and Nightforce 8-32x scope. This rifle shoots a 325gr Pittman AccuMax bullet at 2872fps generating almost 6000 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. Accuracy with this rifle is unbelievable out to the limit of my shooting range of 400 yds. At 400 yds with this load I regularly shoot sub MOA groups. Recoil is intense but i built this for hunting Kansas during the mid September ML season where my setups were more for rifle shooters. Over the years i have taken some great bucks but the biggest deer i saw were out of range and this is why i built the smokeless rifle. The deer i shot this year was at just 230 yds and dropped in his tracks. the wound is on the entry side and there was not an exit. The rifle is a hammer.

Man, that's a great buck. Good shooting!