long range groundhog
- Thread starter maddysdad
- Start date
How long range? For me, 275 yards is long range because I hunt off of shooting cross sticks and roam the fields.
Kill shots depends on shot placement - I've gut shot them at under 200 yards and they made into their hole - not a good feeling - hate to wound an animal. Not sure about the energy needed - I've taken them with a 22 Long rifle at 50 to 75 yards with head shots. Like most game hunting - it's all about the shot placement. One suggestion - sight in to hit crawlers high - this way you will either miss or hit the spine which is a sure kill. If you shoot over them many times they won't spook and you'll get another shot - shoot low and spook them and you most likely won't seen them again that day.
The real long range guys (over 300 yards) I know use 22 250's or 6MM's and shoot off a bench with front and back rest and have reliable, expensive scope with repeatable dial up capability. Not my style of hunting but I admire their skill.
Kill shots depends on shot placement - I've gut shot them at under 200 yards and they made into their hole - not a good feeling - hate to wound an animal. Not sure about the energy needed - I've taken them with a 22 Long rifle at 50 to 75 yards with head shots. Like most game hunting - it's all about the shot placement. One suggestion - sight in to hit crawlers high - this way you will either miss or hit the spine which is a sure kill. If you shoot over them many times they won't spook and you'll get another shot - shoot low and spook them and you most likely won't seen them again that day.
The real long range guys (over 300 yards) I know use 22 250's or 6MM's and shoot off a bench with front and back rest and have reliable, expensive scope with repeatable dial up capability. Not my style of hunting but I admire their skill.
How far is long range to you?
A 6 dasher XP-100 pistol 1-7.5T shooting a 108 ELD does a great job out there a long ways.
280AI will get you past 1500 yds
450ft lbs is way more than you need for a groundhog! My 17 Fireball kills them at 400 yards with about 130ft/lbs. 450ft/lbs will kill a whitetail
A 6 dasher XP-100 pistol 1-7.5T shooting a 108 ELD does a great job out there a long ways.
280AI will get you past 1500 yds
450ft lbs is way more than you need for a groundhog! My 17 Fireball kills them at 400 yards with about 130ft/lbs. 450ft/lbs will kill a whitetail
JEFFPPC
Gold $$ Contributor
What do you use?
I use my big game hunting rifles.
Sometimes off a pack, or bipod. Sometimes a fence rail, or tree limb. Sometimes i use a small fold up hunting seat with pack over it & sit on the ground.
I will shoot to 600 yards. Mostly though 400 or less.
1)Stevens 200 rebarreled to 250 Savage. 90gr Sierra BlitzKings, +P pressures.
2) Ruger 77 MKII in 257 Roberts, 90gr BlitzKings loaded to +P.
3) Ruger 77 MKII in 280 Rem. 140gr Berger VLD-H.
4)Savage 111 in 7mm Rem Mag, 140 & 168gr Berger VLD-H.
When i was younger i used to use my Savage 110 in 30-06 with the Remington Accellerators.
Sometimes off a pack, or bipod. Sometimes a fence rail, or tree limb. Sometimes i use a small fold up hunting seat with pack over it & sit on the ground.
I will shoot to 600 yards. Mostly though 400 or less.
1)Stevens 200 rebarreled to 250 Savage. 90gr Sierra BlitzKings, +P pressures.
2) Ruger 77 MKII in 257 Roberts, 90gr BlitzKings loaded to +P.
3) Ruger 77 MKII in 280 Rem. 140gr Berger VLD-H.
4)Savage 111 in 7mm Rem Mag, 140 & 168gr Berger VLD-H.
When i was younger i used to use my Savage 110 in 30-06 with the Remington Accellerators.
Mark W
Gold $$ Contributor
My suggestion would be a 6 BRA. My longest confirmed prairie dog kill with mine last year was 656 yards. 400-500 yard shots were easy like Sunday morning. My rifle is a 1:12 twist shooting 70 grain blitzkings.
The tough western rock-chuck is much like a groundhog. I have shot many rock-chucks with a 6.5-06 using 120-140 grain bullets but now have downsized to a quick twist .22-.250 shooting 60-75 bullets. A frequently used load is the 75 .224 ELDM with H4350, IMR4831, or RS Hunter. My feeling is that it is not the energy but the degree of expansion that is needed and the 75 ELDM provides that on these rodents. The 75 ELDM will swat down tiny prairie dogs but does not give spectacular & gory aerial effects (unless you hit one at it's water line).
The smaller 6mm's would probably give better barrel life and the 70 blitz king better expansion (blow up).
The smaller 6mm's would probably give better barrel life and the 70 blitz king better expansion (blow up).
What is wrong with just sticking with your 22BR ? A good explosive and accurate bullet in it will kill any groundhog/rock chuck all the way out to 4-500 yrds, when you place that bullet into a good solid kill zone.
Find a accurate load, create a chart and dial that sucker right onto target.
Find a accurate load, create a chart and dial that sucker right onto target.
Although I shoot a 20vt or a 223AI for Ghogs at longer range 500-700 yds. I would stay with the 6 BR case as you should get better barrel life than with a 22-250 or larger case. As far as energy to kill one I think 450 is on the high side. I have considered a 22 BR in the past but stayed with my 223AI with 75 gr Amax or 53 Vmax. It works at the distance my fields allow me to shoot. Last year I put a 22-250 AI together and only used it on 2 trips.
Gary -
Howdy, once again !
To clarify...... the 450 ft lb energy threshold, I have suggested as a guide.
( Refer my response to your post titled “ groundhog “, and other similar responses I have made
The energy guide can be useful in giving some idea of what various varmint rifles/chamberings might be capable of; energy delivery wise.
Alternately:
You can look @ your questions back-asswards....
What type for rifle do I think will suit my needs ?
A single shot bolt rifle, a repeater bolt gun, a magazine-fed
gas gun; for examples.
If you are committed to a magazine fed AR derivative, that brings w/ it certain limitations; such as: overall cartridge length, Max case diameters that the action can safely accomodate; etc. Bolt guns feeding rounds from a magazine, likewise will have cartridge oal limits.
That to me, drives the question to: whether your needs could be met shooting a single-shot rifle; especially a bolt action ? With the ability of the shooter to single feed cartridges that have bullets seated well out.
It’s possible a shooter might feel their needs would be better met by a single shot bolt rifle, than say... a falling block action; or a top break
action; or a gas operated repeater. Nice thing about the bolt action types, is that a whole bunch are offered specifically to meet the needs of precision shooters ( for example - benchrest ).
For many, use of an established benchrest action might be a reach.
Some view the use of a “ trued “ factory action, as a good fit for their varmint rifle needs. Not to say that this option is inexpensive.
In my particular instance, I intended to have Fred Sinclair make my first custom ( varmint ) rifle utilizing a sleeved and trued Remington XP-100; set-up as a single shot rifle. Fred advised that use of the sleeved action would really restrict my potential rifle stock choices/options. What Fred advised me to do was go w/ the then-new Wichita WBR 1375 single-shot benchrest action. Fred as usual, was right on-point! My Wichita is s/n 15,
and it has served as the core for a variety of rifles/chamberings; mostly as a dual-role’ varmint/target rifle; notably....as a dedicated groundhog rifle.
Application:
As others have also mentioned, you should take a clear eyed look @ what engagement distances you might have to cover. If 500 yd is the max, that’s has implications for what features the rifle and chambering might need to have ( scope, too ). If the distances might run to say... 1,000 yd, that may very well lead to a differing rifle/chambering configuration
( scope too ).
To my way of thinking...... if you are not one that re-barrels his varmint rifles all that frequently, or similarly .....don’t often have a custom varmint rifle assembled; I’d think you’d want to step out the door w/ a rifle that can cover the max ranges you might potentially be called upon to cover.
To that end, why go w/ an energy delivery system that can scarcely cover 500yd, we have you can build one to cover say... out to 1,000 ?
For example: a 24” 1-14 .220 Swift shooting 55gr varmint bullets might meet the energy guide for shooting groundhogs @ 500 yd, but it will not
for 1,000 yd. For that, the example Swift chambering might need to be
put in a 29” 1-8 barrel, and say 75gr VLDs used for distances out there ...like, the example 1,000yd.
Using the .220 Swift example..... w/ a 75gr VLD seated, the resulting cartridge oal might bias your action choices towards use of a single shot
( quite possibly ) bolt action.
Fer sher..... why spend the $$$ for a custom groundhog gun that only delivers say... 150 ft lb @ any distance ? That’s not offering very much distance capability. By extension, why limit yourself to a 250 or say
375 ft lb energy delivery capability out to any distance ? Again, you are the one best positioned to truthfully answer the question of what ranges you will need to cover; and how much deliverable energy you will be comfortable with. The 450 ft lb energy guide certainly positions one for more-favorable outcomes, than shooting combos that feature notably lower
energy levels ( IMHO ).
And yes.... longer ranges might drive you to use of a bullet that is not a purpose-made varmint bullet ( for example.... use of the 75”A-Max” in my 28” 1-8 barrelled rifle, chambered in my .22-35 Remington wildcat ).
Not my most eloquent writing Gary, but I hope it helps you w/ your varmint rifle trade studies.
With regards,
357Mag
Howdy, once again !
To clarify...... the 450 ft lb energy threshold, I have suggested as a guide.
( Refer my response to your post titled “ groundhog “, and other similar responses I have made
The energy guide can be useful in giving some idea of what various varmint rifles/chamberings might be capable of; energy delivery wise.
Alternately:
You can look @ your questions back-asswards....
What type for rifle do I think will suit my needs ?
A single shot bolt rifle, a repeater bolt gun, a magazine-fed
gas gun; for examples.
If you are committed to a magazine fed AR derivative, that brings w/ it certain limitations; such as: overall cartridge length, Max case diameters that the action can safely accomodate; etc. Bolt guns feeding rounds from a magazine, likewise will have cartridge oal limits.
That to me, drives the question to: whether your needs could be met shooting a single-shot rifle; especially a bolt action ? With the ability of the shooter to single feed cartridges that have bullets seated well out.
It’s possible a shooter might feel their needs would be better met by a single shot bolt rifle, than say... a falling block action; or a top break
action; or a gas operated repeater. Nice thing about the bolt action types, is that a whole bunch are offered specifically to meet the needs of precision shooters ( for example - benchrest ).
For many, use of an established benchrest action might be a reach.
Some view the use of a “ trued “ factory action, as a good fit for their varmint rifle needs. Not to say that this option is inexpensive.
In my particular instance, I intended to have Fred Sinclair make my first custom ( varmint ) rifle utilizing a sleeved and trued Remington XP-100; set-up as a single shot rifle. Fred advised that use of the sleeved action would really restrict my potential rifle stock choices/options. What Fred advised me to do was go w/ the then-new Wichita WBR 1375 single-shot benchrest action. Fred as usual, was right on-point! My Wichita is s/n 15,
and it has served as the core for a variety of rifles/chamberings; mostly as a dual-role’ varmint/target rifle; notably....as a dedicated groundhog rifle.
Application:
As others have also mentioned, you should take a clear eyed look @ what engagement distances you might have to cover. If 500 yd is the max, that’s has implications for what features the rifle and chambering might need to have ( scope, too ). If the distances might run to say... 1,000 yd, that may very well lead to a differing rifle/chambering configuration
( scope too ).
To my way of thinking...... if you are not one that re-barrels his varmint rifles all that frequently, or similarly .....don’t often have a custom varmint rifle assembled; I’d think you’d want to step out the door w/ a rifle that can cover the max ranges you might potentially be called upon to cover.
To that end, why go w/ an energy delivery system that can scarcely cover 500yd, we have you can build one to cover say... out to 1,000 ?
For example: a 24” 1-14 .220 Swift shooting 55gr varmint bullets might meet the energy guide for shooting groundhogs @ 500 yd, but it will not
for 1,000 yd. For that, the example Swift chambering might need to be
put in a 29” 1-8 barrel, and say 75gr VLDs used for distances out there ...like, the example 1,000yd.
Using the .220 Swift example..... w/ a 75gr VLD seated, the resulting cartridge oal might bias your action choices towards use of a single shot
( quite possibly ) bolt action.
Fer sher..... why spend the $$$ for a custom groundhog gun that only delivers say... 150 ft lb @ any distance ? That’s not offering very much distance capability. By extension, why limit yourself to a 250 or say
375 ft lb energy delivery capability out to any distance ? Again, you are the one best positioned to truthfully answer the question of what ranges you will need to cover; and how much deliverable energy you will be comfortable with. The 450 ft lb energy guide certainly positions one for more-favorable outcomes, than shooting combos that feature notably lower
energy levels ( IMHO ).
And yes.... longer ranges might drive you to use of a bullet that is not a purpose-made varmint bullet ( for example.... use of the 75”A-Max” in my 28” 1-8 barrelled rifle, chambered in my .22-35 Remington wildcat ).
Not my most eloquent writing Gary, but I hope it helps you w/ your varmint rifle trade studies.
With regards,
357Mag
I prefer the .22-250 but have used .223s & the ol' .22-Hornet many times over the years.
I've said it before on this forum that most often when I travel to Ohio for ground hog shoots, I typically use my deer rifles (6.5-284/284s). It gives me the ability to learn all my drop info, windage and just overall rifle use while in different shooting forms. It's really the best way to get familiarized with your deer rifles. A ground hog is pretty much about the size of a deers vital zone +/-. That said, I built a 22-250 AI with an 8 twist 30" HV barrel to use for ground hogs as well. I have not had an opportunity to kill one yet but am looking forward to eventually. It's a laser beam out to 800 yards. Pushing an 80 ELD at almost 3600 fps will make it a true LR ground hog rifle. Accuracy is amazing and it also uses a .308 BF. With the rifle coming in around 17-18 lbs scoped, there is virtually zero recoil. Watching a bullet make contact with steel at 300 yards is easy. That's something I really can't accomplish with my deer rifles. I need around 600 yards minimum to see the bullet make contact.
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