Long(er) range load testing question

[mshelton]

I have a 6br that I have been shooting for a while, has a 1-14 twist barrel and I did all my load development and testing at 100yds and have had success out to 400ish yards.

I also have a 1-8 twist barrel that I want to start load development on for longer range, around 650 yards or further. My question is, at what distance should I be doing my load testing, 200, 300, further? I know I'll eventually have to test out far but for initial testing am I going to be learning much from 100yds or should it be stretched out further.

Just as a reference, with the 1-14 I was using 69g FB and with the 1-8 I plan to start with 95-105g VLDs.

I know this might be an elementary question but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Thanks

 

[Preacher]

The VLD's will shoot fine at 100 yards, and that is where I start all my loads, long range or otherwise..
Get em tight at 100 and then stretch em out....
If they don't shoot good at a 100 yards they won't at a distance either..

 

[4xforfun]

Same here. I do most of my initial load testing at a hundred yards. Once I get somewhere close I move out to 600 for all of the fine tuning. Neck tention, seating depth, slight powder charge variations, ect.

Now....a lot of guys, including myself sometimes, skip this stage all together and do a ladder test (or multiple ladder tests) at as far out as possable. i can shoot to a mile, so I don't go there...but 600 is usualy the place I end up.

Good luck.

 

[alf]

I test at 325-350 on as good a day as possible, condition wise.

Much further, I think conditions start to come into play, and I'm not always sold on 100 yard knot holes.......

 

[bozo699]

The VLD's will shoot fine at 100 yards, and that is where I start all my loads, long range or otherwise..
Get em tight at 100 and then stretch em out....
If they don't shoot good at a 100 yards they won't at a distance either..

I totally agree with Preacher, I do fine tune out to the 1000 yard line since that is where I am shooting but if it won't group at 100 yards I have never seen it group @ 1k either, I once believed vld style bullets wouldn't stabilize until maybe 300-400 yards,....hogwash. The guy's I shoot with that are winning are fine tuning at 1000 yards with seating depth, I never ask but I am sure they worked there load up at 100 or so.
Wayne.

 

[mshelton]

Thanks guys, I have a 100yd range literally 40yds from where I reload and store my guns but to go any further I'd have to drive to the range.

 

[bozo699]

Thanks guys, I have a 100yd range literally 40yds from where I reload and store my guns but to go any further I'd have to drive to the range.

Absolutely perfect, best of luck to you and post your results when finished
Wayne.

 

[sailhertoo]

The VLD's will shoot fine at 100 yards, and that is where I start all my loads, long range or otherwise..
Get em tight at 100 and then stretch em out....
If they don't shoot good at a 100 yards they won't at a distance either..

I'm not to sure about that. That old saying that the bullet doesn't go to "sleep" til after 300 yards may be true sometimes. I finally have a gun that does that now. Tinny groups at a 1000 yards but not so much at 100 or even 200.

 

[tenring]

That old saying that the bullet doesn't go to "sleep" til after 300 yards may be true sometimes.

So, if it doesn't "go to sleep until after 300 yards" can groups tested at 100 yds be say minute and a half and you would then expect groups at 600 to be under a minute? Nah.

Maybe a slight advantage, but not dramatic. And how many shooters are more proficient at longer distances?

 

[geordiesniper]

I have heard a lot over the years about bullets 'going to sleep' at a certain range and then it suddenly becomes a real tack driver. Has anyone who is in the bullet making trade or has access to equipment that can actually prove this statement?
I remember years ago I went to a private range which our company owned to test 120mm projectiles. As I arrived to break in my new barrel there was a defence company there to do high speed photography on a 105mm gun and they also had a radar set up to track the round to the target. They asked me to use my gun to test the radar and also to trip the camera as a cheaper option to them. Well it worked and I received a photo of my 139 grain Lapua Scenar in flight about 20 yards from the muzzle and a radar trace to the target which was interesting.
But I couldn't interpret the results to clearly state that my bullet stabilised the further it went from the muzzle.
Interested in any replies.
Thanks, Les

 

[BoydAllen]

A friend has a 100 yd. tunnel. He shoots long range, and so does a friend of his who has done some winning, and in the past, held a record. He told me that all of the load development that produced such good results at the long ranges was done in the tunnel. Take it for what it is worth. Just for fun, it would be interesting to post targets starting a say 25 yd. and color bullets so that the shape of the holes they produce in target paper would be easier to read. It would seem to me that if the holes are round, that there would not be much of a yaw issue, and if some of the shorter distance holes were not, it would be interesting to see at what distance they became round.

 

[SpencerC]

I have heard a lot over the years about bullets 'going to sleep' at a certain range and then it suddenly becomes a real tack driver. Has anyone who is in the bullet making trade or has access to equipment that can actually prove this statement?
I remember years ago I went to a private range which our company owned to test 120mm projectiles. As I arrived to break in my new barrel there was a defence company there to do high speed photography on a 105mm gun and they also had a radar set up to track the round to the target. They asked me to use my gun to test the radar and also to trip the camera as a cheaper option to them. Well it worked and I received a photo of my 139 grain Lapua Scenar in flight about 20 yards from the muzzle and a radar trace to the target which was interesting.
But I couldn't interpret the results to clearly state that my bullet stabilised the further it went from the muzzle.
Interested in any replies.
Thanks, Les

Hi Les,
I had the same question a couple of years ago and then stumbled upon this article on Bryan Litzs' website on epicyclic swerve. That may answer some of your questions about bullets "going to sleep"

http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/epswerve.html

 

[geordiesniper]

Hi SpencerC.
Thanks for that, made interesting reading and it has answered my question very nicely.
Best wishes and good shooting.
Les

 

[aJR]

Hi Ms, To throw a different light on this subject , i shoot only Long Range Benchrest at 500 to 1000yds.. Every time i have had a chance to test at 1K and get a positive tune result the groups have been better proportionality at 500 also .. Absolutely invaluable to test at the competition distance you regularly compete at IMO, but only an opinion..JR..Jeff Rogers

I have a 6br that I have been shooting for a while, has a 1-14 twist barrel and I did all my load development and testing at 100yds and have had success out to 400ish yards.

I also have a 1-8 twist barrel that I want to start load development on for longer range, around 650 yards or further. My question is, at what distance should I be doing my load testing, 200, 300, further? I know I'll eventually have to test out far but for initial testing am I going to be learning much from 100yds or should it be stretched out further.

Just as a reference, with the 1-14 I was using 69g FB and with the 1-8 I plan to start with 95-105g VLDs.

I know this might be an elementary question but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Thanks

 

[PREMOD70]

From my experience the twist of the barrel has a lot to do with the minimum test distance. I use 100 yards for the 1-12 or less, 1-10 gets 200 and the 8's get tested at 300 but to each his own, it's JMHO.

 

[RMiller]

Here is how I see it.

Just because a load shoots bug holes at 100 yards does not mean it will shoot tight groups at 1000 yards or what ever distance your shooting at. The only way to be sure is to test at the distance you plan to shoot.

A friend of mine not long ago called me up and told me he just shot a .05" 5 shot group at 100 yards. Basically 1 hole. This was his 1000 yard rifle that he was planning on shooting in competition the following weekend. He was confident that he had found the load of all loads and was going to set the world on fire the next match. I said that's great but we will see how it does at a 1000. You can guess the rest. He shot a huge group. Not just big but disappointingly big. So what did all those bullets and barrel life accomplish? Nothing except tell him what it likes at 100.

IMO it is a waste of barrel and bullets to test at short range then have to retest at another longer distance, redoing it all over again.

If it makes you happy that you can step out side your back door and shoot, then go right ahead. But if you really want to know what your gun will do, test it at the distance you plan on shooting.

Just my 2 cents

 

[bozo699]

Here is how I see it.

Just because a load shoots bug holes at 100 yards does not mean it will shoot tight groups at 1000 yards or what ever distance your shooting at. The only way to be sure is to test at the distance you plan to shoot.

A friend of mine not long ago called me up and told me he just shot a .05" 5 shot group at 100 yards. Basically 1 hole. This was his 1000 yard rifle that he was planning on shooting in competition the following weekend. He was confident that he had found the load of all loads and was going to set the world on fire the next match. I said that's great but we will see how it does at a 1000. You can guess the rest. He shot a huge group. Not just big but disappointingly big. So what did all those bullets and barrel life accomplish? Nothing except tell him what it likes at 100.

IMO it is a waste of barrel and bullets to test at short range then have to retest at another longer distance, redoing it all over again.

If it makes you happy that you can step out side your back door and shoot, then go right ahead. But if you really want to know what your gun will do, test it at the distance you plan on shooting.

Just my 2 cents

Ryan,
I have remembered what you told me at the super shoot in Montana last year,...everything you do, do it the same each and every time and load test at the distance to be used, I believed that to be good advice at the time and still do, however do to weather conditions and my inability to correctly read the wind precisely at 1000 yards I do basic load work at 100 or so and fine tune at distance to be shot I hope to make it out to PA next year to shoot beside you, take care.
Wayne.

 

[mshelton]

Thanks for the replies guys,

I ended up doing a mix, shot 3 shot groups at 100 yds to find a decent starting place then went to 400 and finished it off, I figured if it looked like a buckshot pattern at 100 then there was no reason to waste gas and barrel life testing it at 400.

Anyhow, I found a nice load for the little gun, 30.2g of H4895 under a Spencer 95, seems I found the right speed for these as I've been told the VLDs don't like to be smoked.

Not bad for a pistol off a bipod at 400yds, probably could be better but I'm sure the limiting factor is me, that and not having winf flags set up either.

 

[bozo699]

Thanks for the replies guys,

I ended up doing a mix, shot 3 shot groups at 100 yds to find a decent starting place then went to 400 and finished it off, I figured if it looked like a buckshot pattern at 100 then there was no reason to waste gas and barrel life testing it at 400.

Anyhow, I found a nice load for the little gun, 30.2g of H4895 under a Spencer 95, seems I found the right speed for these as I've been told the VLDs don't like to be smoked.

Not bad for a pistol off a bipod at 400yds, probably could be better but I'm sure the limiting factor is me, that and not having winf flags set up either.

M.S,
No not bad at all, the high vertical shot, what shot was it? if you remove it from the equation it is very good indeed about 1/4 MOA it looks like to me keep that up and you will be out shooting many of the rifles .
Wayne.

 

[mshelton]

Thanks Wayne,

I have no idea on the shot sequence, I didn't have a spotting scope and can't see bullet holes in the 20x scope, I was trying to get them down as fast as possible to keep the same condition but I do know it switched on me a slight bit in the middle of the group.

Might put the 36x on it next time and try to keep track.


As for shooting against rifles, I'd wager a yard or two against anything at my range, nothing but clic clak wanna be sniper GI Joes, would be worth 200-300 to see those f$%ks have to shoot a group as apposed to a 4' steel plate.

MS