Loctite 609 for AR15 Barrel to Receiver: Removal Question

[GSS]

Hi All,

I saw some of the other threads related to this topic of using shims and / or adhesive products to take the play out of / join the barrel and receiver of an AR15 Match gun together are of any value or not got a little heated.

That is understandably a topic that will generate healthy to lively debate from proponents or detractors of the process.

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THAT... It hurt my head to read that thread / posts...lol

I am hoping This Thread to Simply be about using Loctite 609;
Suppose for a minute or two that one has already decided to use Loctite 609 between the barrel extension and inside of the receiver to temporarily join them together until barrel replacement time comes. https://tdsna.henkel.com/americas/n...6D6B842166B0882571870000D855/$File/609-EN.pdf

We all know various types of Loctite need varying "degrees" heat to soften them for disassembly.

The Loctite 609 product sheet states the temperature of 250 deg C to disassembly. (482 ishF)
Aluminum ( like the Upper Receivers) doesn't melt until 660 deg C (1220 ishF)

That seems like a safe enough separation / delta in temps to me that it would be near impossible to damage the aluminum upper receiver by just heating until the 609 softens and the barrel can be tapped out

My 3 SPECIFIC Questions are regarding using Loctite 609 only;

1) How difficult is it to disassemble the two parts that were joined with the Loctite 609 ?

2) Has anyone that has used 609 for this ever not been able to get them apart after or caused damage to the receiver when heating to separate the two parts?

3) How hard is it to remove any excess 609 that may be inside the receiver to get it clean enough to install the next barrel in that same receiver?

Snip below says a wire brush and / or maybe some solvent will remove excess material. Is that true?

Looking forward to hear from people that have used Loctite 609 for this before I go ahead and install my nice new Bartlein 20: service rifle barrel into a nice new Geissele flat top upper receiver.

Thanks in advance to all that respond with helpful / on topic info
George

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I recently tried red loctite on an AR upper build. I didn't notice that when I torqued the nut, the nut was making contact with the receiver. It did not shoot well 1-2 out of 5 with the flyers always vertical. After reviewing my test load targets I saw the trend and pulled the hand guard and notice test contact. Oven gloves and heat gun to remove barrel. I warmed the red residue up and cooled down a couple times and it flaked off. I had a smith friend take 0.025 off the receiver side of the nut, reassemble without the loctite(encase of another issue) and it has shot great. I haven't decided if I should try the red loctite again. Anderson upper,BHW barrel, Lantac Sparta-s hand guard.

 

[GrocMax]

R/C nitromethane or the loctite solvent helps, but yeah, 600 series stuff can be tough to break loose.

I'd suggest controlled heat like an oven. Try 300F and work up if needed, once it is soft enough to break loose you will know.

Might want to ask the upper mfg what they consider maximum heat before any damage can occur is, not all aluminum is the same.

 

[GSS]

I recently tried red loctite on an AR upper build. I didn't notice that when I torqued the nut, the nut was making contact with the receiver. It did not shoot well 1-2 out of 5 with the flyers always vertical. After reviewing my test load targets I saw the trend and pulled the hand guard and notice test contact. Oven gloves and heat gun to remove barrel. I warmed the red residue up and cooled down a couple times and it flaked off. I had a smith friend take 0.025 off the receiver side of the nut, reassemble without the loctite(encase of another issue) and it has shot great. I haven't decided if I should try the red loctite again. Anderson upper,BHW barrel, Lantac Sparta-s hand guard.

Not trying to be a stick in the mud and Thanks and I ( like most of us here ) know dozens of other products or methods are related but,,,

but 609 is a whole different product.
I tried to be clear in the opening post that I am looking for info on Loctite 609 only please.
Hence the title of the thread and the text in the opening post.

Who knows,
may turn into a useful thread that could be easily found using the search tool for Loctite 609

 

[GSS]

R/C nitromethane or the loctite solvent helps, but yeah, 600 series stuff can be tough to break loose.

I'd suggest controlled heat like an oven. Try 300F and work up if needed, once it is soft enough to break loose you will know.

Might want to ask the upper mfg what they consider maximum heat before any damage can occur is, not all aluminum is the same.

Excellent Points, Thank You

 

[geraldgee]

The truth of the matter is that with quality components, you shouldn’t need the Locktite.
IMO, You don’t need a press fit for accuracy. You need concentricity between the upper and the barrel extension. Use the locktite at your own risk.

Good luck with it.
Gerald

 

[GSS]

The truth of the matter is that with quality components, you shouldn’t need the Locktite.
IMO, You don’t need a press fit for accuracy. You need concentricity between the upper and the barrel extension. Use the locktite at your own risk.

Good luck with it.
Gerald

Like I said in the opening post is I know that all that is highly debatable and has been debated before in numerous other threads and not what this thread is HOPED to be about.

I must have done a poor job of being clear in the title or the opening post that

I am asking for feedback from People that have used Loctite 609 for the stated purpose.

Like I said not trying to be a stick in the mud but...
Even if I only get 3 good replies from people that have actually used Loctite 609 and can answer the 3 specific questions I asked I would like that much better than 5 pages of off topic responses or opinions.
George

 

[geraldgee]

I understood.

 

[Bob3700]

Like I said in the opening post is I know that all that is highly debatable and has been debated before in numerous other threads and not what this thread is HOPED to be about.

I must have done a poor job of being clear in the title or the opening post that

I am asking for feedback from People that have used Loctite 609 for the stated purpose.

Like I said not trying to be a stick in the mud but...
Even if I only get 3 good replies from people that have actually used Loctite 609 and can answer the 3 specific questions I asked I would like that much better than 5 pages of off topic responses or opinions.
George

609 was made as a bushing n bearing race mount product. if u read Locktites spec sheet it tells u the amount of clearances
it will take up. While correct, if all surfaces are true u don't need locktite, few are so that is where various named AR builders use the 609.

I have used 609 for a lot of different applications on airliners ( as well as AR builds) and heat around 450-460 degrees F will soften n release it. once the items are apart, u need a stout sharp pointed scribe to clean it from threads as it becomes like a hard plastic. I would say a wire wheel for the surfaces u can use it on. dont know of any solvents that will deal with the cured product.

Bob

 

[Walt Krafft]

I use 609 to fix the extension to the barrel. I have turned some extensions blue (800 degrees?) when I needed to remove them. I recomend 242 Blue for the barrel to receiver joint.

 

[natdscott]

The Highpower method is to heat the thing until it smokes, and the receiver will come loose.

Red has most certainly been used.

Needed? Probly not. All it does is take up space to hopefully prevent some of the barrel joint movement.

Then again, I can 100% attest that an oversize extension like the WOA or BAT units, if fit into a BCM receiver, are NEVER gonna move.

That’s a big “if” though. Freezers, 2x4s, mallets, the acceptance of possibly having to cut the receiver off later....that sort of thing.

But hey, if it fits, it ships!

 

[skeeljc]

The Loctite data sheet for 609 says to apply localized heat to the area and disassemble while hot. Baking in an oven will cause both parts to expand. Heating just the receiver with a torch will cause the receiver to expand away from the barrel. You will need to have a way to hold the receiver and a 1" hardwood dowel to drive the barrel out of the hot receiver. The only risk I see is discoloring the receiver. Anodizing should be o.k. with 250 degrees C. Cerakote not so much.

 

[skeeljc]

JP Rifles now shrinks their uppers onto the barrel extension. The parts have an interference fit and they heat the receiver and shove it onto the barrel. Looks like the preferred way to go. Easy to disassemble.

You can do the same thing with SS shim stock and heating the receiver. It just takes a little practice.

 

[carlsbad]

Specific info for 609: No different than other loctites. Heat it up and it releases. Not a problem with aluminum.

 

[Adam in WI]

Any loctite residue I've ever encountered came off easily enough with a little Scotch- Brite and just as much ambition.

 

[GrocMax]

The proper solvent will dissolve cured product once its disassembled. 600 series stuff is on a whole different level. Don't try to compare it to purple, blue, or red. The green be mean.

 

[GSS]

The Loctite data sheet for 609 says to apply localized heat to the area and disassemble while hot. Baking in an oven will cause both parts to expand. Heating just the receiver with a torch will cause the receiver to expand away from the barrel.

You will need to have a way to hold the receiver and a 1" hardwood dowel to drive the barrel out of the hot receiver.

Skeeljc,
You bring up a good point I hadn't thought of that applies to my 1st of the 3 questions I asked when I started this thread.

Finding a way to heat the receiver to melt the 609 to separate the two parts when the barrel is at end of life.

All kinds of video's on you tube about how to do the assembly but I haven't seen any on disassembly when barrel extension is glued in to receiver.

I'm thinking a set of barrel vice blocks to hold the barrel securely in a vice while heating the receiver should work well leaving the receiver in a position it could be tapped off the extension or wiggled off wearing a welding glove to hold the receiver as the glue melts.

Then cleanup with solvent and or mechanically as Grocmax and a couple others stated.

Thank you to those that answered providing feedback related to the questions I asked.
George

 

[skeeljc]

Skeeljc,
You bring up a good point I hadn't thought of that applies to my 1st of the 3 questions I asked when I started this thread.

Finding a way to heat the receiver to melt the 609 to separate the two parts when the barrel is at end of life.

All kinds of video's on you tube about how to do the assembly but I haven't seen any on disassembly when barrel extension is glued in to receiver.

I'm thinking a set of barrel vice blocks to hold the barrel securely in a vice while heating the receiver should work well leaving the receiver in a position it could be tapped off the extension or wiggled off wearing a welding glove to hold the receiver as the glue melts.

Then cleanup with solvent and or mechanically as Grocmax and a couple others stated.

Thank you to those that answered providing feedback related to the questions I asked.
George

View attachment 1154037

Take a look at the JP Rifles video showing how to assemble/disassemble their shrink fit uppers. They hold the upper receiver in a vice, apply heat and use a 1" dowel and a mallet to drive the barrel out of the receiver. There is not much area to strike on the upper and you could easily damage it. Driving the barrel out with a dowel centers the force on the centerline of the barrel and prevents cocking.

 

[Adam in WI]

. Don't try to compare it to purple, blue, or red. The green be mean.

I believe it's 609 that we use to hold the camshaft gears onto the cams on Cummins ISX motors. No keyways of any sort, just a smooth round tapered nose, some green loctite, and a fine thread M12 bolt torqued to 109 ft-lbs.

Pulling that gear requires a sturdy puller, some heat, a half inch impact wrench, and a retainer plate to keep the gear from flying out on the floor when it does let loose.

I'll pass on putting that stuff in one of my rifles. If there's any little gap I think needs filling 242 will work just fine.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I believe it's 609 that we use to hold the camshaft gears onto the cams on Cummins ISX motors. No keyways of any sort, just a smooth round tapered nose, some green loctite, and a fine thread M12 bolt torqued to 109 ft-lbs.

Pulling that gear requires a sturdy puller, some heat, a half inch impact wrench, and a retainer plate to keep the gear from flying out on the floor when it does let loose.

I'll pass on putting that stuff in one of my rifles. If there's any little gap I think needs filling 242 will work just fine.

The taper is what holds that tight. Ive used green bearing retaining loctite for years for bearings on large pumps (2500hp plus) and it doesnt take anything special besides heat and a brass punch or lead hammer. It turns loose quite nice which is what its made for. The small dia and thin upper wouldnt take much heat at all to get it loose. Its just made for any press fit joint- perfect for a barrel extension