LOADING INTO THE LANDS

[Nick Caprinolo]

In many instances it is recommended to seat the bullet into the lands. When loading for 6PPC, neck tension is light, and bullet is seated long to allow the chamber to determine seating depth. For me this has worked out great and the results are tiny groups.

I have other rifles that require offsets from the lands. Some more than others. What confuses me is when it is suggested to set bullet depth so many thousands into the lands. Can you really chamber a cartridge that is .015 longer from a touch without it being pushed back into the case? What about increased chamber pressure? I mostly use bushing dies and can easily tighten to neck. Is this required in order to set into the lands and keep the bullet from receding into the case?

I fully realize that every barrel requires its own cartridge setting in order to obtain the best results. I recently built a 6BA and it is suggested that to set the bullet .015 into the lands using the bullet and powder charge I use.

 

[JEFFPPC]

When I became involved with the PPC about 24 years ago I was schooled heavy neck tension and seat in the lands . Has worked really well for me. Yes you might pull a bullet but once you do you figure out how to make it not a big deal and have time to finish your target. I have had quite a few good barrels that were winners with a square mark on the bullet.

 

[Bill Norris]

Even with heavier neck tension I find that the bolt camming will seat the bullet a few thousandths deeper into the case if seating .015 to .020 into the lands. Seating hard jam will increase chamber pressure at max loads.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Even with heavier neck tension I find that the bolt camming will seat the bullet a few thousandths deeper into the case if seating .015 to .020 into the lands. Seating hard jam will increase chamber pressure at max loads.

I Don't know if your first sentence is correct or not. I totally agree with your second sentence. What I do know is what I have had work. In good conditions groups at or under an inch on a regular basis at 500 yds. I do know that when starting at at a square mark and backing up seating depth it will usually take several bumps of .002 before much difference in group size so perhaps when hard in the lands a couple of thousandth makes little or no difference. I do think there are often several ways to come to a similar conclusion, every thing is not absolute.

 

[RegionRat]

What confuses me is when it is suggested to set bullet depth so many thousands into the lands. Can you really chamber a cartridge that is .015 longer from a touch without it being pushed back into the case?

This is not a 100% type of situation. Generalities about seating depths, even when limited to 6 PPC or 6 BRA in BR competition, are only generalities and not hard laws of physics.
The particular reamer angle details, and bullet type details, affect this answer, and since those are not a common standard, the answer is it depends....

Even if it does get "soft seated", the concepts of consistency as a goal come to play. If this works the best, then make sure your process is the same so the results don't drift in and out.

What about increased chamber pressure?

This may account for about 4 KSI difference when compared to jumped. As long as your loads are not drifting in and out of jam, the pressure pulse should be consistent. What you don't want is to have it drifting in and out of play.

 

[Dave M.]

In many instances it is recommended to seat the bullet into the lands. When loading for 6PPC, neck tension is light, and bullet is seated long to allow the chamber to determine seating depth. For me this has worked out great and the results are tiny groups.

I have other rifles that require offsets from the lands. Some more than others. What confuses me is when it is suggested to set bullet depth so many thousands into the lands. Can you really chamber a cartridge that is .015 longer from a touch without it being pushed back into the case? What about increased chamber pressure? I mostly use bushing dies and can easily tighten to neck. Is this required in order to set into the lands and keep the bullet from receding into the case?

I fully realize that every barrel requires its own cartridge setting in order to obtain the best results. I recently built a 6BA and it is suggested that to set the bullet .015 into the lands using the bullet and powder charge I use.

Where the bullet first touches the lands is very different from hard jam.

 

[Dave M.]

When I became involved with the PPC about 24 years ago I was schooled heavy neck tension and seat in the lands . Has worked really well for me. Yes you might pull a bullet but once you do you figure out how to make it not a big deal and have time to finish your target. I have had quite a few good barrels that were winners with a square mark on the bullet.

I’m loading 0.019” past touch and it has worked great

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

I’m loading 0.019” past touch and it has worked great

but have you extracted a round and then measured it. Did it remain .019? What caliber did you do this with? Was the load compressed?

 

[JB10]

What i have found that works good on my 6br is i load .010 jammed, but its such a light seat that its seated when loading the round. A loaded round measures .269 and i use a .269 bushing to neck size. I can basically load the bullet by hand with light force. In my teaching this allows the round to touch the lands when chambered and will be about the same even with some barrel wear. I have not tried it in any other calibers since other ones are for other purposes. Just works for me with good results.

 

[RV6]

When I became involved with the PPC about 24 years ago I was schooled heavy neck tension and seat in the lands . Has worked really well for me. Yes you might pull a bullet but once you do you figure out how to make it not a big deal and have time to finish your target. I have had quite a few good barrels that were winners with a square mark on the bullet.

When you say heavy neck tension what do you mean,as I am still learning on my 6 PPC ?
Thanks

 

[JEFFPPC]

With 133 and a .262 neck, case neck cut to 0085, I shoot .257 or 258. Different barrels like different tensions. For over 20 years I have shot only Hammond 6mm bullets, just loaded my last 50 so changes are coming. I plan to switch out of 133 to LT30. I have been told the Lt30 likes light neck tension. I will figure it out, I played a bit last summer and it looks promising.

 

[Tim Singleton]

IME with ppc
Neck tension and seating depth do go hand in hand. it seems to be all about generating just the right amount of pressure for that day

If you use fairly light neck tension you usually end up deeper into the lands to get it to shoot

If you use a lot of neck tension you end up a few thou in from touch a lot of times

When you decide on a bullet and powder you have to work all 3 things powder charge neck tension and seating depth

With 2019 N133 I shoot a lot of neck tension loaded round of .2665 with a .260 bushing. I shoot 5to10 thou. In from touch most of the time. It will tend to spit shots with over pressure when I'm deep into the lands

 

[Dave M.]

but have you extracted a round and then measured it. Did it remain .019? What caliber did you do this with? Was the load compressed?

Yes I have and it remained this size
6 dasher
Not even close. 33.1g RL-15. I don’t shoot compressed loads. It causes erratic seating depth and bullets literally back out overnight.
Dave

 

[Dave M.]

When you say heavy neck tension what do you mean,as I am still learning on my 6 PPC ?
Thanks

I run 3-4.5 thou neck tension on my 6 dasher

 

[BoydAllen]

Different powders require different approaches to neck tension and seating depth. For 133 I have gotten my best results with .003 neck tension or a little more, for LT32 .001-.002. With .003 you can seat farther into the rifling without pushing the bullet back. One experiment that I recommend is to carefully measure where touch is, and also jam so that you have some idea of your into the lands working range. Typically, with .003 neck tension I can back off jam by .003 and know that I will never stick a bullet. For those who may not know the old school definition of jam is the length that a bullet that is seated long, is pushed back to when the round is chambered, using the same neck tension that you will be loading with. Over time the term has been corrupted because people do not know of its original (and for me proper) meaning. If you do a proper load workup starting low and going up in small increments (.3 gr for PPC) with your bullets in the rifling, watching for pressure, you will find that there is not issue with excess pressure, as long as you watch for signs as you go.

 

[jimmymac]

IME with ppc
Neck tension and seating depth do go hand in hand. it seems to be all about generating just the right amount of pressure for that day

If you use fairly light neck tension you usually end up deeper into the lands to get it to shoot

If you use a lot of neck tension you end up a few thou in from touch a lot of times

When you decide on a bullet and powder you have to work all 3 things powder charge neck tension and seating depth

With 2019 N133 I shoot a lot of neck tension loaded round of .2665 with a .260 bushing. I shoot 5to10 thou. In from touch most of the time. It will tend to spit shots with over pressure when I'm deep into the lands

Is this with a 268 neck?

 

[NorCalMikie]

A load built with a jam into the lands is much different than that same load with a jump to the lands. Build with a jam and adjust from there.
And a jammed load will allow you to go higher in powder charge than the jumped load and won't show pressure like a lower jumped charge.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

Is this with a 268 neck?

Neck is 262

 

[JEFFPPC]

A load built with a jam into the lands is much different than that same load with a jump to the lands. Build with a jam and adjust from there.
And a jammed load will allow you to go higher in powder charge than the jumped load and won't show pressure like a lower jumped charge.

That is interesting information. I have always got great results jammed shooting pretty hot so I have little knowledge of the other end of the spectrum. It makes sense because I have had other shooters say they get pressure at much lower powder charges and jumping which often did not make sense to me. I do believe all these various things we discuss/argue about are not absolutes but often there is more than one way to get a good result. My overall opinion is there is often too much emphasis on guns, barrels, and bullets and WAY to little on bench manners and flags . Especially in the short and medium range game. Little different in long range.

 

[JFrank]

In many instances it is recommended to seat the bullet into the lands. When loading for 6PPC, neck tension is light, and bullet is seated long to allow the chamber to determine seating depth. For me this has worked out great and the results are tiny groups.

I have other rifles that require offsets from the lands. Some more than others. What confuses me is when it is suggested to set bullet depth so many thousands into the lands. Can you really chamber a cartridge that is .015 longer from a touch without it being pushed back into the case? What about increased chamber pressure? I mostly use bushing dies and can easily tighten to neck. Is this required in order to set into the lands and keep the bullet from receding into the case?

I fully realize that every barrel requires its own cartridge setting in order to obtain the best results. I recently built a 6BA and it is suggested that to set the bullet .015 into the lands using the bullet and powder charge I use.

Depends on the bullet, I run a vld in the lands .025 in one barrel with plenty of hold yet another barrel I run a tangent .026 off the lands.