Loading for Accuracy in Pistol Calibre Lever Actions

[Oso]

I find that standard pressure/velocity gives the most consistent accuracy. I use only lead, sized to the typical maximum diameter for caliber, factory crimp and I always fill the case to the base of the bullet with Cream of Wheat over the powder, and slightly compress it. I keep it dry by buying it and immediately transferring to a closed lid container. Perfect shot to shot consistency without worrying about powder position for the fast burn powders I use.

Just out of curiosity - are you using anything, such as piece of a cotton patch, to keep the powder separated from the COW? Thanks

 

[cromag77]

Just out of curiosity - are you using anything, such as piece of a cotton patch, to keep the powder separated from the COW? Thanks

No. I gently tap the case on the bench after powder, then use an appropriate Lee scoop to dump in the cow, another tap and seat the bullet. The cartridges don't get carried in the guns, just put in boxes and brought to the range, so there's no disturbance anyway.

 

[OLeveraction]

I always fill the case to the base of the bullet with Cream of Wheat over the powder, and slightly compress it.

That is headed for incipient case failure.

 

[C_Ackley]

Always heard use of filler was taking a tweezer to a cotton ball and using some strands of it to keep the powder down. That way case capacity is still basically the same and you avoid lots of extra pressure due to not giving gases room to expand.
Personally, I use air as my filler. Nice uniform burn for those fast, easy to ignite shotgun/pistol powders.

 

[servant403]

Ive shot a lot of different loads out of 2 Henry .44 mag rifles.
Crimp has to be enough for a tube fed gun so bullets stay. It should be enough for the powder being used. If the case mouth is soot stained its NOT enough. I use both Redding Profile and taper crimp dies with equal accuracy
Primers... I dont see any problem with mag primers in lighter loads of Universal or Unique. But they are a must with H110 and AA11Fs.
As far as power level. I have shot 10 shot 1 inch groups at 50 meters with light and heavy loads. I dont shoot much at 100 meters with these rifles. I use a 1x4 scope. Bench accuracy to me is not easy with short light lever actions. Consistency in forearm placement and shoulder and cheek weld are very critical. This rifle does not have as good of a trigger either for me to decipher if its the load or that causing some pulled shots. But theat 50 meter accuracy is very acceptable for the hunting I do. That said I can usually hit 1.5 -2.5 inches at 100meters with a lot of loads.
Case length seems to be more important for cycling than accuracy. But I do sort my cases in length lots and try not to have too much variation. And unlike many I do trim my magnum pistol cases.
Bullets seem more important to this gun than any other factor. In fact it seems to despise some bullets it should shoot well. This is a older HenyBBS that has a 1-38 twist. Lighter shorter bullets should shoot well. Like 180-200 JHP. They DONT. 240 grain hornady XTP and Nosler 240jfp shine. Ive shot 10 shot 1 inch groups at 50 meters with the hornady with multiple powders and power levels.
It also shoots my cast bullets well.
But bullet selection seems to me to be the biggest influence on accuracy.

 

[Scrumbag]

Ive shot a lot of different loads out of 2 Henry .44 mag rifles.
Crimp has to be enough for a tube fed gun so bullets stay. It should be enough for the powder being used. If the case mouth is soot stained its NOT enough. I use both Redding Profile and taper crimp dies with equal accuracy
Primers... I dont see any problem with mag primers in lighter loads of Universal or Unique. But they are a must with H110 and AA11Fs.
As far as power level. I have shot 10 shot 1 inch groups at 50 meters with light and heavy loads. I dont shoot much at 100 meters with these rifles. I use a 1x4 scope. Bench accuracy to me is not easy with short light lever actions. Consistency in forearm placement and shoulder and cheek weld are very critical. This rifle does not have as good of a trigger either for me to decipher if its the load or that causing some pulled shots. But theat 50 meter accuracy is very acceptable for the hunting I do. That said I can usually hit 1.5 -2.5 inches at 100meters with a lot of loads.
Case length seems to be more important for cycling than accuracy. But I do sort my cases in length lots and try not to have too much variation. And unlike many I do trim my magnum pistol cases.
Bullets seem more important to this gun than any other factor. In fact it seems to despise some bullets it should shoot well. This is a older HenyBBS that has a 1-38 twist. Lighter shorter bullets should shoot well. Like 180-200 JHP. They DONT. 240 grain hornady XTP and Nosler 240jfp shine. Ive shot 10 shot 1 inch groups at 50 meters with the hornady with multiple powders and power levels.
It also shoots my cast bullets well.
But bullet selection seems to me to be the biggest influence on accuracy.

Thanks @servant403 . Do you find that it pays to vary the crimp level as part of your load development?

Scrummy

 

[servant403]

Thanks @servant403 . Do you find that it pays to vary the crimp level as part of your load development?

Scrummy

Are you talking about crimp level as in how "hard " or tight I crimp the bullet.? If that is what your speaking about I have tried varying degrees of crimp. But you can only crimp so hard on cast before you start deforming your cast bullets.
With the loads I have varied the degree of crimp I have not seen that much difference in accuracy at 50 meters. I have shot 5 shot 1inch groups with very light profile crimps and very hard profile crimps. I have to work more at 100 meters to test that out. I think the difference would show up at that range if there was a difference. Im still playing with that aspect and also taper crimps.
I just make sure Im not deforming my cast bullets. And I make sure its a hard enough to get a decent burn. If there is a lot of soot around my fired cases I know it isnt enough for that powder.

 

[Surgeonwithagun]

For my Rossi 357 carbine I found that learning about the slow barrel and testing helped me figure out that small 125 gr bullets in 357 over slow powders gave the best results. Slugging your barrel to figure the best bullet diameter can also help but testing different bullets would show that as well.

John

 

[Scrumbag]

For my Rossi 357 carbine I found that learning about the slow barrel and testing helped me figure out that small 125 gr bullets in 357 over slow powders gave the best results. Slugging your barrel to figure the best bullet diameter can also help but testing different bullets would show that as well.

John

Thanks John, I'm a bit limited on choice as to be "all deer legal" where I am, I need a certain muzzle energy so am playing with jacketed bullets.

One of the things I have noticed is I think I have been too brutal with the amount and depth of crimp I need. I think the last load I did I set the crimp too far down the case and too hard.

So, I have loaded up a small charge ladder around where I think the powder charge should be and I will start with a light crimp and add a little more.

Scrummy

 

[Surgeonwithagun]

Interesting. What exactly do they regulate on the bullet in your parts? If I was loading for deer in California I would need to use nonlead...probably would use lehigh defense solid copper and max load it over IMR 4227, Lil Gun or H110. Would test for accuracy of course.

John

 

[Scrumbag]

Hi John,

So the issue is a minimum ME of 1,700ftlbs for Roe, Red, Fallow and Sika in England and be designed to expand.

To get the energy with a .44 mag, it's actually easier with a lighter bullet:



So, as you can see from the above from the Hodgdon website and H110 data - easier with lighter bullets.

The thing that slightly concerns me is that the lighter bullets tend to be designed to be shot out of 44 Special revolvers so might not work so well at lever action rifle speeds. (In fact I found some data on the 200gr XTP and if you shot it with a high enough MV to make the legal ME, it didn't drop into the bullets performance envelope until ~125 yds according to the software. This would not seem to give an indicator of good on game performance if you hit a solid shoulder bone for example at the ranges I am likely to use this rifle)

Non-lead bullets might be an option but because they are relatively so long for their weight, they do eat into your powder capacity some what so you need to be careful.

The other issue is H110 and Magnum pistol primers. Both are like hens teeth here and from my testing, I do think H110 needs a magnum primer to fire it up and give a consistent burn.

So, I have selected the Nosler JSP 240gr and Vihtavouri N110 (obtainable here and seems to work well with a standard, large pistol primer). Also, Vihtavouri publishes load data for the Hornady 240gr JTC-Sil as a starting point (The Nosler JSP and Hornady JTC are pretty close in length which helps and means you get less nasty warnings of pressure when you run the software to give the required ME than longer bullets such as the 240gr Sierra JHC and the 240gr Hornady XTP if you keep to book length).

So, that's the lead bullet load.

Non-lead I have:

Left - Peregrine 180gr Hog (Will load with N105)
Centre - Nosler 240gr JSP for comparison
Right - Peregrine 205gr VRG 3 (will load with Hodgdon Lil'gun)

So, that's next when I finally meet up with my powder monkey.

Sorry for the long answer.

Scrummy

 

[Surgeonwithagun]

Finding any large primers locally for me makes difficult into near impossible. I'd say depending upon your local supply get enough components to start testing and do so with probably the soft point bullet if they are in reasonable supply. Be testing I mean accuracy testing at your predicted game shooting distance.

If you don't have enough large pistol magnum primers, that may answer some questions for you. You might be encouraged to use the powder that doesn't need them.

Look at the bright side...in California I would be lucky to find any of the components I would need at present anyway if I were loading for a hunt. Solid copper bullets are unicorns right now out here and in my State I would be forced to use them. You sound like you have a pretty good chance of solving the issue and going on that hunt.

John

 

[Scrumbag]

Hi understand the mantra of buy what you can when you can.

A while ago I started the "3 box" mantra. You should have 3 boxes. 2 spare and one you are using. As soon as the one you are using starts to "feel a bit light" buy / order another one..