Loading challenge

[archerforkids]

I'm helping my son attempt to develop loads for his new rifle. He purchased "The Fix" by Q in 6.5 creedmoor.
The bolt is butter smooth on 140 ELDs factory rounds. We are trying to handload the new 156 EOLs by Berger. The magazine length is our controlling factor for COAL due to him wanting to hunt with it.
With that being said, I'll be damned if we can get that thing to cycle a 156. It absolutely hangs up on the feed ramp no matter what we do.
Have any of you fine gentleman laid hands on this model rifle or perhaps had a similar experience with the VLD style bullets in another bolt action hunting rifle?
On another note, at what point is COAL too short to be safe? If we keep shortening the length, at what point are we creating a bomb?
Any input would be appreciated.

 

[BDman]

My personal opinion is that the 156 has gotten to the point of being too much of a good thing for the 6.5 CM anyway. Especially when mag feeding many of the standard mag sizes and given the CM's case capacity. The performance with a 143 ELD X or one of the 140 Berger hunting bullets is not going to be bested by much, if any, at the usual hunting ranges by a heavier bullet - at least IMHO. For the bigger 6.5's, and more comfortable velocity, I can see the benefit. My .02

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Heavier bullets with higher BC are great for competitions where the distance is known and the wind call is the biggest concern.

For hunting, I recommend a lighter bullet with a flatter trajectory. Range estimation error is a pretty common phenomenon in hunting - even with laser rangefinders. Likewise, the environmental conditions that can cause significant misses at long range are rarely accounted for in hunting situations.

The 140 appears to have enough killing power, and a better trajectory at all ethical hunting ranges. I'd find another use for the 156's.

 

[Zero333]

Make a dummy round and seat the bullet deeper in the case in 0.010" increments untill it feeds properly.

Your only other option is to work with a different bullet.
Modifying the magazine feed lips could also work, but it's not guaranteed.

 

[archerforkids]

Lo

Make a dummy round and seat the bullet deeper in the case in 0.010" increments untill it feeds properly.

Your only other option is to work with a different bullet.
Modifying the magazine feed lips could also work, but it's not guaranteed.

And this is exactly what I told my son. He spent yesterday afternoon playing w the seating depth.
This is what prompted my question about how safe will a COAL that is shorter than any published load be.

 

[DOGCAPPER]

Put a single shot adaptor in the existing magazine.
If you miss the first shot you do not deserve a second .

 

[archerforkids]

Put a single shot adaptor in the existing magazine.
If you miss the first shot you do not deserve a second .

LMAO.
And right after I say that, I hear all the singing about how old school I am.
Every deer I have shot over last 40 years has been with .308 150 or 180 grain Remington PSPs. Cheap round. But. Them deer didn't express horror over their demise NOT being w some "boutique" round. And they all ate just fine.
Sucks being old school huh?

 

[David Milisock]

I use a 6.5 x 55 different launch platform but I've found that Hornady 129 grain interlockmor SST are plenty for deer. With the 140 grain I shot straight through them even at 300 yards.

 

[mikecr]

Put a single shot adaptor in the existing magazine.
If you miss the first shot you do not deserve a second .

This is as valid as other solutions.
I grew up with an obsession for hunting. A reason I stayed so excited about it was rules passed early on, that changed hunting for me in every way better.

#1 SAFETY. Always positively identify the primary target and secondary backstop. Always point guns in safe directions(as though loaded). Never rely on a safety, but load only when actually ready to kill something.
#2 BE RESPECTFUL OF LAND AND LANDOWNERS. Common sense. The endeavor is tied to this.
#3 HUNT ONE THING AT A TIME. Don't shoot at anything unhunted, no matter what.
#4 NEVER THROW A HAIL MARRY. Take shots that are high probability of success, or stalk until establishing this, or don't shoot. You don't have to shoot.
#5 IF I MISS, IT LIVES ANOTHER DAY. A miss is not always a mistake. Sometimes it's karma.
Either way, a second shot will not make you feel better -today.
#6 PUT A GUN AWAY CLEANER THAN PULLED. Respect and take care of hunting equipment, so it will ALWAYS be ready.
#7 LET MY SON HUNT. It's in his blood. Give him the right tools.
And when he hunts, and returns, talk to him and listen to him.

 

[Bill K]

Put a single shot adaptor in the existing magazine.
If you miss the first shot you do not deserve a second .

I like that "If you miss" As many old timers say " If you never miss, you have never hunted" SMILE...

 

[Zero333]

Lo

And this is exactly what I told my son. He spent yesterday afternoon playing w the seating depth.
This is what prompted my question about how safe will a COAL that is shorter than any published load be.

Seating the bullet deeper in the case will raise the pressure, but if the load is not at MAX you'll be OK.

 

[Kurz]

1) I'm helping my son attempt to develop loads for his new rifle. He purchased "The Fix" by Q in 6.5 creedmoor.
The bolt is butter smooth on 140 ELDs factory rounds. We are trying to handload the new 156 EOLs by Berger. The magazine length is our controlling factor for COAL due to him wanting to hunt with it.

2) With that being said, I'll be damned if we can get that thing to cycle a 156. It absolutely hangs up on the feed ramp no matter what we do.

3) Have any of you fine gentleman laid hands on this model rifle or perhaps had a similar experience with the VLD style bullets in another bolt action hunting rifle?

4) On another note, at what point is COAL too short to be safe? If we keep shortening the length, at what point are we creating a bomb?

Any input would be appreciated.

1) The Fix, like most other bolt action rifles, is optimized for the 130/140 class bullets because that's what's available commercially and what the vast majority of shooters will use. The COAL is limited to 2.800" which usually leaves about 0.020" clearance between the bullet tip and the front of the magazine. The magazines (SR-25 MAGAZINE COMPATIBLE) have a fixed geometry involving the spring and the follower which means there are no changes which you can use to affect the feeding. As mentioned, the feed lips can be altered but this is not guaranteed to help with your problem.

2) The statement is 'optimized for the commercial ammunition' and the COAL is usually 2.800" SAAMI spec. Using the Berger 156 at 2.800" leaves 0.632" in the case and 0.880" above the case mouth. The length and weight of this much bullet out of the case causes the balance to shift forward (tipping). Without being able to change the geometry of the spring and follower, there is nothing you should do without consulting a qualified gunsmith. Even then I'd leave it alone.

3) With fixed or 'BDL' style magazines, the geometry can be altered to sometimes accommodate longer bullets. In many situations though, the result is to use a bullet which is better balanced.

4) If you follow standard safety procedures for reloading you shouldn't create a 'bomb'. Reducing the overall length (seating the bullet deeper in the case) requires that the load be reduced also. In VERY GENERAL terms, you could seat a bullet right up the transition angle of shank diameter to ogive. However, this idea can be compromised by the overall length of the bullet and what length is actually inside the case. Too much length inside is bad juju. There is also the potential for the infamous 'doughnut' at the neck and shoulder junction which will raise pressures. The exceptions are the small cases loaded with heavy for caliber bullets to be used in with suppressors.

My suggestion is to explain to your son that sometimes we have to give up on an idea in favor of full, safe function for hunting rifles. In this situation, the 156 EOL really doesn't bring anything to the table except to acquiesce to all the hype.

Switch to the 140 class bullets and enjoy your hunting.

 

[bozo699]

The general rule of thumb is don’t seat the base past the neck/shoulder junction. However I have before without issue in like my 7-08 shooting 168 Burgers, they shoot great!... but I have since bought a 25/06 magazine and can seat to the lands and the base is above neck/shoulder junction. I think I would opt for a 140 that will function!... I as well have been hunting 50 years and I would like to meet the man that’s shot as many as I have that hasn’t needed a follow up shot from time to time!.... talk about unethical!.....my 7-08 shoots as well as any average hunting rifle and I’ve needed a second shot before, would a single feed have worked?... yes but why it’s a hunting rifle.
Wayne

 

[archerforkids]

As usual y'all are a wealth of info. And it's appreciated!!!

 

[mikecr]

Wayne, we don't need a magazine, or to limit ourselves with magazines, for a followup kill shot (which is different than a miss).
My rule #5 should not be understood as unethical