My .308 currently has a 26" Obermyer chambered 1-13 twist that's about shot-out, so I have always been limited to 168-175's. I was thinking of trying my hand at FTR, and figured it would be a good excuse to re-barrel. My smith asked me what bullet I wanted to shoot, and after a little discussion we settled on the Berger 200-20X so he's throating a 30" Brux 1-10 he had available for that bullet, and I just bought 1000 of them, so I'm committed. Have never loaded for a bullet this heavy before. Will be using new Lapua Palma brass, Fed-205's, Powders I have available on hand include IMR-4064, IMR-8208, H-4895, Varget, Benchmark, H-414, H-4831SC, and H-4350. Bergers Loading manual doesn't even list this bullet weight, Lees manual lists 39-42gr for Varget, and 40-42.7 for H-4895, Did a couple searches, and found a couple threads where others where using Varget, H-4895, and some VitaVori powders I don't have, now I plan to start low and work up, but I have found in the past that loads listed in Lee's manual tend to run much hotter than those listed in Bergers manual, and most loads listed in the threads I read online where a full grain or more above the max loads listed in Lee's mannual, so thought I'd better ask here.
Loading a 200-20X in .308
- Thread starter JDBraddy
- Start date
Most manuals are limited to what the layer will allow. Just my two cents Tommy Mc. Not many have the same data !! I shoot the same bullet with a 1x12 works fine.
You have selected exactly the right TR bullet, brass and barrel twist rate but I imagine guys’ relative silence is that the basic well-known load data went with the advice of the other components. 2,650-2,700 FPS is the prevailing window by TR participation but you can’t get there with 39-42 of Varget, though your brass would last a long time.
I did some generic QuickLoad models for some of the powders you may use.
200gn Berger Hybrid, 308 Win 30" bbl, OBT 1.5320mS, the 'faster node' is over design pressure.
Varget 36.2 gns, 2380 ft/s, 93% case fill, 52.5 kpsi
H 4895 36.1 gns, 2400 ft/s, 87.5% case fill
H 4350 40.0 gns, 2377 ft/s, 101.9% case fill, 51.5 kpsi
IMR 4064, 36 gns, 2392 ft/s, 95% case fill, 54 kpsi.
These will get you started, I used 10 535 psi start pressure to simulate 0.010" off the lands.
Because this is generic your results may/will be a few percentages off most likely.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
There are folks running them with great success from about 2630 to around 2700. Some of the tightest shooting rifles are in the lower velocity range.
Depending on how far out of the case you can seat, and that’s important or you’ll get over pressure, you should be in he general area of 44 gr of Varget depending on lot and freebore. Start low and work the velocity up, start serious testing when you break 2600 FPS.
Depending on how far out of the case you can seat, and that’s important or you’ll get over pressure, you should be in he general area of 44 gr of Varget depending on lot and freebore. Start low and work the velocity up, start serious testing when you break 2600 FPS.
MikeMcCasland
Team Texas F-T/R
The manual is useless with TR setups. Assuming you run a .170+ FB the below charges are min/max charges. This should take you from about 2600 to 2700 in a 28"-30" barrel; obviously there is some variability depending on lots, but I'm pretty confident this will be close.
Varget at 43.5-45gr
H4895 at 42-43.5gr
For VV powders, N150 is probably the better bet, but N140 can work well too.
N150 - 43.6gr-44.8gr
N140 - 43.5gr-44.5gr
I agree with the 2615-2640ish range; some push them faster, but generally it's more stable down low. Some barrels just run faster than others though; I had a 28" bart that shot real well at 2670.
I wouldn't mess with other powders unless you're at risk of running out of supplies. One of the four listed above will probably be your best bet.
Good luck!
Varget at 43.5-45gr
H4895 at 42-43.5gr
For VV powders, N150 is probably the better bet, but N140 can work well too.
N150 - 43.6gr-44.8gr
N140 - 43.5gr-44.5gr
I agree with the 2615-2640ish range; some push them faster, but generally it's more stable down low. Some barrels just run faster than others though; I had a 28" bart that shot real well at 2670.
I wouldn't mess with other powders unless you're at risk of running out of supplies. One of the four listed above will probably be your best bet.
Good luck!
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Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
In my hands, rifles with multiple different 30" 5R Bartlein 11- and 10-twist barrels throated with 0.180" freebore ended up via independent testing at the exact same load: 43.5 gr Varget in Lapua Palma brass with Fed 205s, the 200.20Xs seated at .012" off the lands (~COAL 3.109" -3.115"). Final velocity was in the 2640 -2650 fps range.
As has been noted by others, you will find quite a few other F-TR shooters' 200.20X loads with Varget in Palma (SRP) brass to be in the range of around 2630 to 2670 fps. Those running in the 2700+ fps range are likely hitting the next higher node. It also works, but may produce shorter brass life and introduce additional gun handling/recoil considerations. As you can also see from the information provided by others above, the actual charge weight of Varget required to hit the ~2650-ish fps range can vary quite a bit, likely dependent on a number of factors including powder Lot #, case volume, COAL, etc. Somewhere in the 42.8-43.0 gr range with Varget, Lapua Palma brass, Fed 205s or CCI BR4s, and a COAL somewhere in the 3.100" to 3.120" range should be a fairly reasonable place to start.
Of the powders you listed, Varget would be my first choice. In my hands, H4895 also gave comparable precision at ever so slightly higher velocity in a tuned load (+10-20 fps as compared to Varget), but I find the recoil impulse with H4895 and the 200.20X to be a bit more difficult in terms of feel and gun handling. It is more like a sharp "crack", whereas Varget produces more of a gentle push. It's not anything like a pain or discomfort issue, but the difference in the recoil impulse can be a distraction and a bit of an annoyance if you're not accustomed to it. IMO - H4895 is a bit too fast a powder for 200 gr bullets in .308 Win, but some are clearly having success with it. Charge weights with H4895 will generally fall somewhere in the neighborhood of at least 0.5 to 1.0 gr lower than Varget. I'd also guess that IMR4064 might also be worth a try. It's certainly in the right burn rate range, whereas I would consider 8208 and Benchmark too fast for 200s, and H4350 and H4831sc too slow. The slower powders tend to be bulky and may also have the potential difficulty of actually getting enough powder in the case. The good news is that I can't imagine you wouldn't be able to generate a very acceptable tuned load with the 200.20X bullet and either Varget, H4895, or IMR4064, so trying to obtain some other type of powder during the current component shortage shouldn't be necessary.
As has been noted by others, you will find quite a few other F-TR shooters' 200.20X loads with Varget in Palma (SRP) brass to be in the range of around 2630 to 2670 fps. Those running in the 2700+ fps range are likely hitting the next higher node. It also works, but may produce shorter brass life and introduce additional gun handling/recoil considerations. As you can also see from the information provided by others above, the actual charge weight of Varget required to hit the ~2650-ish fps range can vary quite a bit, likely dependent on a number of factors including powder Lot #, case volume, COAL, etc. Somewhere in the 42.8-43.0 gr range with Varget, Lapua Palma brass, Fed 205s or CCI BR4s, and a COAL somewhere in the 3.100" to 3.120" range should be a fairly reasonable place to start.
Of the powders you listed, Varget would be my first choice. In my hands, H4895 also gave comparable precision at ever so slightly higher velocity in a tuned load (+10-20 fps as compared to Varget), but I find the recoil impulse with H4895 and the 200.20X to be a bit more difficult in terms of feel and gun handling. It is more like a sharp "crack", whereas Varget produces more of a gentle push. It's not anything like a pain or discomfort issue, but the difference in the recoil impulse can be a distraction and a bit of an annoyance if you're not accustomed to it. IMO - H4895 is a bit too fast a powder for 200 gr bullets in .308 Win, but some are clearly having success with it. Charge weights with H4895 will generally fall somewhere in the neighborhood of at least 0.5 to 1.0 gr lower than Varget. I'd also guess that IMR4064 might also be worth a try. It's certainly in the right burn rate range, whereas I would consider 8208 and Benchmark too fast for 200s, and H4350 and H4831sc too slow. The slower powders tend to be bulky and may also have the potential difficulty of actually getting enough powder in the case. The good news is that I can't imagine you wouldn't be able to generate a very acceptable tuned load with the 200.20X bullet and either Varget, H4895, or IMR4064, so trying to obtain some other type of powder during the current component shortage shouldn't be necessary.
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D-4297
Gold $$ Contributor
I'd like to suggest a Free Bore length of .180 for a 200.20x , and play with your seating from .005 off touch out to .020 . In my Kelby Panda , 30" Brux - 4 , 1/10T , The high node was 44.2gr of Varget giving a avg. of 2668fps. Low Node was 43.3gr of Varget , with a avg. of 2618fps. Both of these loads fall in line with other recommendations here , so I'm comfortable posting them . The extra .010 Free Bore will allow you to move the bullet slightly farther out of the neck , and give a little extra wiggle room , possibly reducing chamber pressure .
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
Maybe longer... I have a mixed lot of Lapua Palma that dates back so far I don’t remember when I started using it. I lost some pockets to an experiment with 215s about 7 yrs ago but since that got culled and I cycled in a couple of replacement boxes I dont think I’ve tossed a case in at least 5 yrs running in the mid 2600s With 200 gr bullets. It’s really no longer a concern for my 308 loading.
I have worn out several barrels in the interim.
Got my new barrel this week, and put it on, was told it has .170 freebore. First attempt at load development looked promising, just wanted to sight in the new scope, a March 10-60, and find the OAL. So I didn't have my chrono set up, and don't have a velovity, but loaded 30 rounds of 43.0gr Varget and started varying OAL down, starting from .020 off a hard jam, untill I shot this 5 shot group at 3.055" OAL.
Nice. I like to shoot in new barrels a bit under full charge too. If you can keep them looking like that with a grain to 1.5 more, then that’ll leave the match outcomes to your wind calls alone, which is the big picture goal.
Holes all touching like that consistently and not stringing at 100 means match time. I’d wager that plenty of first place winners’ guns didn’t shoot any tighter than that new, and likely many shoot bigger and still win. There’s not unlimited supplies anymore to chase the 9 of 10 pure one-hole groups with 400 practice rounds.
Holes all touching like that consistently and not stringing at 100 means match time. I’d wager that plenty of first place winners’ guns didn’t shoot any tighter than that new, and likely many shoot bigger and still win. There’s not unlimited supplies anymore to chase the 9 of 10 pure one-hole groups with 400 practice rounds.
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