Loading 9mm for CZ P09

[Jbro73]

I'm new to reloading for pistols. I am reloading 9mm for my CZ P09 for uspsa shooting. The pistol shoots any factory ammo I have put through it from 1.111 to 1.160 COL. I am working up a load for 124 gr. square nosed plated Berrys bullets. I can fit the resized brass fine into the barrel chamber. Through fine adjustments, I am only able to get the bullet to go into battery when I get the COL down to 1.085. Anything longer than that it feels like the bullet, not the brass, is hitting the riflings. Is 1.085 acceptable for COL? Is the square nose my problem? Do square nosed bullets need seated farther than round nose? I am planning on using 3.8 grains of Titegroup powder.

 

[joshb]

Bump.

 

[DirtySteve]

I have all my manuals in storage right now. But I will tell you that loading a pistol cartridge longer than the manual recommnds will not gain you any accuracy. Dont load it it shorter either as it builds up pressure. Also I recommnd the Lee Factory Crimp Die to ensure proper functioning.

 

[retired]

do not do what he has said.
1) you can load longer if the gun will feed them AND GAIN accuracy.
2) you can load shorter, but you may have feeding issues and , yes you will likely have to reduce your load.
3) DO NOT use LEE fcd on lead or plated bullets. lead and plated bullets are typically larger in dia than a jacketed bullet. the lee fcd will resize the entire loaded round..REDUCING bullet dia, not good for accuracy.

i would dump the flat nose bullet. yes it will give you an easy to see hole, but i BELIEVE you will have feeding issues. it has no nose, and the nose leads it into the chamber,
I SHOT MAJOR in a cz85/75. but the guns are scary accurate from the factory. it is much better to have 100% reliability than to see holes and have feeding malfunctions.

are you intentionally loading wimpy to game the match ? that is only just over 1000 fps and a 126pf.

i have never had great accuracy with berrys. good but not great. i went to straight lead of a harder alloy or jacketed bullets for accuracy....i like touchong double taps!

you made a good choice on the gun, lets do the same with the ammo.

I have all my manuals in storage right now. But I will tell you that loading a pistol cartridge longer than the manual recommnds will not gain you any accuracy. Dont load it it shorter either as it builds up pressure. Also I recommnd the Lee Factory Crimp Die to ensure proper functioning.

 

[Jbro73]

I’m not sold on berrys or flat nosed. That is just what was on the shelf. I plan on ordering online from somewhere else. I’m hoping with round nose jacketed I’ll be able to load a little longer than 1.085. I did find some load data from Hornady and a few other manufacturers that have seated even shorter than I have.

I do believe I’ll order round nose for the reasons you said.

I’m just beginning to develop my load, so I was just starting with 3.8 grains of titegroup and a chrono.

do not do what he has said.
1) you can load longer if the gun will feed them AND GAIN accuracy.
2) you can load shorter, but you may have feeding issues and , yes you will likely have to reduce your load.
3) DO NOT use LEE fcd on lead or plated bullets. lead and plated bullets are typically larger in dia than a jacketed bullet. the lee fcd will resize the entire loaded round..REDUCING bullet dia, not good for accuracy.

i would dump the flat nose bullet. yes it will give you an easy to see hole, but i BELIEVE you will have feeding issues. it has no nose, and the nose leads it into the chamber,
I SHOT MAJOR in a cz85/75. but the guns are scary accurate from the factory. it is much better to have 100% reliability than to see holes and have feeding malfunctions.

are you intentionally loading wimpy to game the match ? that is only just over 1000 fps and a 126pf.

i have never had great accuracy with berrys. good but not great. i went to straight lead of a harder alloy or jacketed bullets for accuracy....i like touchong double taps!

you made a good choice on the gun, lets do the same with the ammo.

 

[hrlincoln]

I am working up a load for 124 gr. square nosed plated Berrys bullets. I am only able to get the bullet to go into battery when I get the COL down to 1.085. Anything longer than that it feels like the bullet, not the brass, is hitting the riflings. Is 1.085 acceptable for COL? Is the square nose my problem? Do square nosed bullets need seated farther than round nose? I am planning on using 3.8 grains of Titegroup powder.

I'm guessing you really meant 124gr Flat Point plated Berrys like these?

Bottom line...you'll have to seat them for proper chambering. If you haven't already, you can pull the barrel and drop test the 1.085" rounds in the chamber...they should fall out freely. If not, you may have to go to 1.080"...you'll just have to see. My 2015 Hodgdon table lists 4.4gr of Titegroup as max charge for a 125gr SIE FMJ seated to COL: 1.090". Follow usual precautions for load development. As far as your bullet choice goes, you'll just have to run the gun and see how it likes them.

 

[retired]

seat a bullet in a case and measure the case right at the top..where the bell is.
you want your crimp to remove the bell and maybe push in a very little like less than .001.
if you crimp too much the base nay bell back out and cause chambering issues. seat and crimp in 2 steps..not one.

 

[RampedRaptor]

The Berry’s 124gr bullet is fine.
The lee FCD is fine.
Load minor power factor.
Seat and crimp in 2 separate stations and use the plunk/drop test frequently as mentioned earlier.


CZs have notorious short throats.
No issue with loading short (it’s part of being a owner of a CZ).

Start with a lower powder charge as your pressure will be higher than if you had loaded long and weren't jamed into the lands. You need a chrono or a friend with one.

Spend time here: https://forums.brianenos.com/index.php
when it comes to pistol shooting/loading information.

 

[retired]

lol
for 15 years i shot cz's in competition.
for the 9x21 the load was a 135 at 1.155
now tell me about the SHORT throats in my cz's.
three 75's in 9mm
an 85 in 9mm
a FACTORY 85 in 9x21
a 75 in 40
a 97 in 45acp

The Berry’s 124gr bullet is fine.
The lee FCD is fine.
Load minor power factor.
Seat and crimp in 2 separate stations and use the plunk/drop test frequently as mentioned earlier.


CZs have notorious short throats.
No issue with loading short (it’s part of being a owner of a CZ).

Start with a lower powder charge as your pressure will be higher than if you had loaded long and weren't jamed into the lands. You need a chrono or a friend with one.

Spend time here: https://forums.brianenos.com/index.php
when it comes to pistol shooting/loading information.

 

[RampedRaptor]

Coal doesn’t tell me anything about your throat length. As you know, bullet design/shape comes into play.

I will not debate something that has been beat to death.

 

[DirtySteve]

do not do what he has said.
1) you can load longer if the gun will feed them AND GAIN accuracy.
2) you can load shorter, but you may have feeding issues and , yes you will likely have to reduce your load.
3) DO NOT use LEE fcd on lead or plated bullets. lead and plated bullets are typically larger in dia than a jacketed bullet. the lee fcd will resize the entire loaded round..REDUCING bullet dia, not good for accuracy.

I have been shooting pistols for over 35 yrs. Pistols were my main shooting discipline. Unless he is an accomplished bullseye shooter he will not notice any gain in accuracy and may suffer feeding problems. The same way for shorter loadings, but with increased pressure. I second hanging out on Brian Enos forums. Lot of good guys there.

 

[retired]

let me say this.
" may suffer feeding problems."
is a very small "may" IMHO.
i have been shooting pistols for over 40 years,
15 YEARS of CZ pistol competition, at least one match a week....long ammo, close to the lands, excellent accuracy and NO FEEDING ISSUES.
just one person's opinion based on a bunch of cz pistols.

I have been shooting pistols for over 35 yrs. Pistols were my main shooting discipline. Unless he is an accomplished bullseye shooter he will not notice any gain in accuracy and may suffer feeding problems. The same way for shorter loadings, but with increased pressure. I second hanging out on Brian Enos forums. Lot of good guys there.

 

[cdhbrad]

I had the chambers on my 9mm CZs reamed to match those on my 1911s, so I can load mine all the same to about 1.15 - 1.16 so I can't help you. However, here is a link from the CZ Forum that might help you determine the best OAL for your bullet choice: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.0. Plenty of threads in the Ammo & Handloading subforum on OAL and bullet choices. Good Luck.

 

[Rsadams]

I have loaded thousands of Berry bullets , load them as lead... Useing the 124gr round nose normal plate bullets at 1.150 and 4.2gr of Win. 231 powder... This is about 100 fps slower than a factory bullet , shoots extremely well and is easy on everything... Definitely crono some factory rounds of the same weight through your gun for comparison..

S&B primers work well in 9mm , I have shot thousands of them also with zero failures and you can get them at Cabela's for $19.99 a thousand on sale... A bit on the soft side for a primer , don't get crazy seating them...

With Berry's bullets use only enough crimp to remove the belling from the brass... To much crimp can effect accuracy , I use about a quarter turn on a Lee factory crimp die... Highly recommend it...

If you have to load them at that short a coal , start low and work up on the powder charge because it's going to increase the pressure like useing a lead bullet over a fmj... That coal is below alot of manuals..

 

[Rsadams]

I have been shooting pistols for over 35 yrs. Pistols were my main shooting discipline. Unless he is an accomplished bullseye shooter he will not notice any gain in accuracy and may suffer feeding problems. The same way for shorter loadings, but with increased pressure. I second hanging out on Brian Enos forums. Lot of good guys there.

Exactly , you need to load them as lead and seating them short will increase pressure that's not needed... Hodgens site I believe recommend 1.160 , it used to be 1.150 and that's what I have loaded thousands at but with a little less than max charge which I don't need shooting paper at 25 yards... Although Berry's says you can load to the middle of fmj territory I found it to be a little to alot hot depending on the manuals used...

 

[Falfan2017]

Look at American reloading. You can buy pulled fmjs for the price of lead/ plated and get much better functioning.

 

[DirtySteve]

let me say this.
" may suffer feeding problems."
is a very small "may" IMHO.
i have been shooting pistols for over 40 years,
15 YEARS of CZ pistol competition, at least one match a week....long ammo, close to the lands, excellent accuracy and NO FEEDING ISSUES.
just one person's opinion based on a bunch of cz pistols.

And your opinion is just one person's opinion as well. I'm out...

 

[Dusty Stevens]

One thing to remember on rimless pistols is not let the cases get long and dont over crimp them since thats where it headspaces. One of my first matches after getting my 550 i had 250rds in 45 that wouldnt go off due to the crimp letting them fall into the chamber just a tad out of reach for reliable ignition. I felt like an idiot not being able to shoot. They all passed the chamber check they just went in too far and wasnt enough to notice

 

[vegas]

Look at American reloading. You can buy pulled fmjs for the price of lead/ plated and get much better functioning.

I use these guys too, great prices. I just stay away from the mixed lots.

 

[Falfan2017]

I use these guys too, great prices. I just stay away from the mixed lots.

Yeah mixed lots are a real pain. Made that mistake once