Loading .223 for AR15. Neck VS. Full Sizing. Progressive press

[Jim Buck]

I have a Hornady progressive press and load my pistol ammo and my semi auto rifle rounds. I am trying to decide on the best way to load for an AR15. When you full length resize you are supposed to trim after full length sizing, this step really does not work with the progressive reloaders, defeats the purpose.

I also have Lee Collet neck sizing die, whch requires 1/4 to 1/2 a turn after it hits the shell holder to close the collet The Hornady press has a floating plate, it seems like this step is not good for the press.

So now I just full length resize on the progressive press. How many times can I do this before sizing? Does the AR's have plenty of room for case expansion? Any input on any of this situation would be great. Or how others use these progressive press's for rifle ammo. I have also thought about changing dies.

On my target and hunting rifles i use a single stage.

 

[granite1]

While I am not familiar with the Hornady press I do use a Dillon. I however do not use it for sizing. I do full length sizing on a Rockchucker. I know I am slowing things down a bit but I prefer it that way. I don't think you are going to be able to use a "Collet" neck sizer with a progressive press. I also think you do not need to trim your brass every time you load. I generally find I can go 3-4 firings before it becomes necessary. I guess I should mention that this for a rifle with a Wylde chamber. Your rifles chamber, your load, brass mfg. will have a great deal of effect on frequency of trimming. I load my longrange ammunition with a "Collet" die but that is all done using the Rockchucker.

 

[memilanuk]

Most people I know that load rifle ammo on progressive presses do a two-pass process. After cleaning and lubing the cases, run them thru once to size & deprime. Then do your case prep steps, whatever that may entail for your needs - clean or swage primer pockets, trim/chamfer/debur, possibly prime off-press, etc. Then you should have a bin full of clean, sized, trimmed brass ready to prime, charge and seat on the next pass thru the press. Since you don't *have* to trim every firing, primer pocket swaging is generally a one-time process, and cleaning primer pockets is somewhat over-rated for this kind of ammo... you could conceivably run the ammo thru in one pass after the initial case prep, particularly for bulk plinking / SHTF ammo.

It is possible to load some pretty good quality precision ammunition on a progressive press... I use one of John Whidden's floating-die tool heads in my 550 for some of my needs; I believe he loads his ammo on a 650. I have a Hornady LnL AP that I'd love to use... if I could ever get the f'in case-feeder pusher arm to work right....

Generally speaking, neck sizing only on an AR platform gun is considered a Really Bad Idea. Between the tendency for neck sized cases to chamber a little harder than F/L sized rounds, and the floating firing pin on an AR... most people don't like that combination, feeling it invites the possibility of a slam-fire accidental discharge.

So now I just full length resize on the progressive press. How many times can I do this before sizing?

Sorry, that makes no sense...

 

[granite1]

+1 to "memilanuk". I should have included that even the ammunition I necksize with the "Collet" die has been full length sized with a die that has had the expander ball removed.

 

[Jim Buck]

Great info guys!!! This statement is exactly what I was looking for

"Generally speaking, neck sizing only on an AR platform gun is considered a Really Bad Idea. Between the tendency for neck sized cases to chamber a little harder than F/L sized rounds, and the floating firing pin on an AR... most people don't like that combination, feeling it invites the possibility of a slam-fire accidental discharge."

I had no idea....

 

[infantrytrophy]

Most people I know that load rifle ammo on progressive presses do a two-pass process.
...

... I have a Hornady LnL AP that I'd love to use... if I could ever get the f'in case-feeder pusher arm to work right....

Generally speaking, neck sizing only on an AR platform gun is considered a Really Bad Idea. Between the tendency for neck sized cases to chamber a little harder than F/L sized rounds, and the floating firing pin on an AR... most people don't like that combination, feeling it invites the possibility of a slam-fire accidental discharge.

I agree with the above two points. Two steps for loading .223 ammo in a progressive press is a good way to do it. Do your case prep and sizing first, then charge and seat bullets in a separate step. For an AR, you should always full-length size. There is no advantage to sizing just the necks, and there several risks.

I have been very pleased with the rounds loaded in the Hornady LNL AP press. The ammo has been very accurate, more than good enough for XTC matches out to 300 yards. Probably good enough for 600 yards as well, although my compulsive nature leads me to still load the 600 yard ammo using individually-weighed powder charges.

Regarding the problem with the case feeder arm, there is a simple fix for this. Using double-sided tape, tape a thin wafer-like piece of high-density foam under the case feeder arm so that about 1/16" or so of the foam protrudes from the lower edge of the case feeder arm. This allows the case feeder to contact the case lower, at the rim, so that it does not tend to tip as it slides onto the shell plate. The Hornady LNL AP press is great for loading .223.

Randy

 

[jonbearman]

One important thing nobody has mentioned.In autoloaders,feeding and chambering easy is the most important thing.To achieve this you must use a small base die. With this die it full length sizes and squeezes the ring at most cartridge bases back within spec.I would heavily suggest you buy an rcbs small base die to alleviate the problems I mentioned earlier.As of late rcbs is offering a die set called the AR .223 tapercrimp die set in a black box.Midsouth,natchez,grafs and midway sell them.I suggest you buy one.

 

[markm87]

I've loaded 10s of thousands of rounds of AR ammo with a standard Full Length carbide sizing die. I've never had any feeding issues by not running a Small base die.

I too size on a single stage... and do all that prep off the Dillon. Then I feed the dillon primed brass and go to town.

 

[KevinThomas]

Jim Buck,

Others have already touched on this but I'll take it a step further. Neck sizing for an AR (or any other autoloader) isn't "generally" a bad idea, it's always a bad idea. It'll bite you, not a question of if, but of how soon and how bad. Full length sizing only, and don't even consider anything else, ever. I load a good bit of my competition ammo on Dillon progressives, and have always used the two-step process. Essentially, the press isn't doing anything more than priming, charging and bullet seating, as I'm starting with brass that's been sized, inspected and trimmed. The Small Base dies are an option, but will depend on the particualr combination you've got. Redding dies are generally cut to minimum dimensions and I've never seen an AR that would run with brass sized in these dies. Still, SB dies don't hurt a thing, and do provide a bit more "insurance" against problems. Your choice here. Crimping is optional here, provided you've got sufficient neck tension to secure the bullet during feeding. If you do choose to crimp, remember, it only takes a little, and less is better in the vast majority of cases.

 

[Catfish]

I load on a 550 Dillon and do nothing for the AR ammo that I don`t do for my bolt gun ammo that I FL size for. If your worried about cases lenth, mic them befor you load them and trim if nessary.

 

[jonbearman]

Whats all the slamming about.I reload with 2 different types of full length dies and truthfully the redding is way better than dillons carbide die.I ran a bunch recently with the carbide die and set it up for a full length sizzing.I tried a few sized in my chamber.They went in without trouble.I ran a hundred off for my son in law.We went to the range and the gun jammed on every 3rd round or so,so I decided we would run them in a remmy to use them up.No way,no chambering that day.I came home and tried to figure where it went wrong.Put the redding back in and resized the cases again and put them back together.Now they work fine.So I set up the carbide in a rockchuker and screwed it down all the way to the shellplate.Now it works great.The problem is the dillon shell plate flexs.I wont make that mistake again.I learned a great lesson about the weak link in the dillon.A small base die is sold by redding and everyone else.It wont hurt a thing if you use one,especially if you bought once fired brass.

 

[markm87]

I hear what you're saying. I don't run the dillon die in the dillon machine. I do ALL brass resizing off the progressive. Keeps the progressive from having to be torn down to clean.

If those problem rounds checked out in a headspace guage, I'd be looking at that gun's Chamber. There are so many out of spec gas gun chambers out there it's nuts.

The head of the case isn't supported by the shell plate in a 550b. So it might flex a little when you pull the ram back down. But it shouldn't impact the sizing action of the die.