Loading .223 80-90 grainers

[MarioM]

I had some questions about loading the 80-90 grain bullets in a Remington 700 i'm building. I have read alot where everyone is saying Berger 80 grain are the best because you can't get the needed velocity to push the 90's.

Any load data and chrony results would be great. Going to pick up a Criterion 1-7 possibly let me

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Let you what?

My questions are these:
What is your barrel length?
What distance are you considering shooting?

 

[XTR]

I had some questions about loading the 80-90 grain bullets in a Remington 700 i'm building. I have read alot where everyone is saying Berger 80 grain are the best because you can't get the needed velocity to push the 90's.

Any load data and chrony results would be great. Going to pick up a Criterion 1-7 possibly let me

You can shoot the 90s. Anyone who said that is probably shooting an AR. A sling shooter I shoot with shoots 90s from 1000 and shoots High Master scores.

To shoot either the 80s or the 90s to full effect you need to have a chamber that is throated way out to allow you to seat the bullet with the bearing surface above the neck shoulder junction. I get 2900FPS with 80 Amax's out of a 28" Savage I put together to shoot 600 yard F class. I'm loading over 24.8gr of Varget. It's not compressed, and my OAL measures 2.585, mag length for an AR is about 2.25. I think I read Randy post somewhere that his OAL with the 90s was in the range of 2.7, we're talking about 223s that are approaching mag length for a 308. You do the math.

 

[MarioM]

Out at 600-800 goto possibly 1,000 at longest messing around.

24" 1-8 twist .223 wylde chamber

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Well, here's the deal for 600-800yards they will do fine. But out of a 24 inch barrel to 1000 yards, things will get iffy. I don't think you can get the 80 or 90 up to enough speed to have them solidly supersonic at 1000 yards. JBM shows they would be coming in just at sonic speed at 1000. (I'm using 2600FPS for the 90s and 2700 FPS for the 80s and 82.)

 

[MarioM]

I was going to finish it at 24" for portability but most likely it will just be a target rifle so it won't matter. What you think about just leaving it at 26"? What the real deal is I have all custom .308's .300 Win Mag and a 6mm AI. I wanted something that consumes low amounts of powder and bullets are fairly cheap but I can still bang steel and target accuratley.

Now how do you feel about the .224 Horandy AMAX 80 gr. bullets? They have a much higher BC than most. Any suggestions on bullets and load data would be GREAT!

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Twenty six is a better length, more is better for long distances. It will buy you and extra 50FPS, perhaps more. The 80 A-max is a good bullet. I hear about a number of people using it effectively. It's cheaper than most other bullets and you don't have to worry about a ragged meplat or pointing them.

 

[DRNewcomb]

Now how do you feel about the .224 Horandy AMAX 80 gr. bullets? They have a much higher BC than most. Any suggestions on bullets and load data would be GREAT!

The more I look into it the less I'd be willing to rely on quoted G1 B.C. numbers when applied to VLD bullets. Not to say Hornady isn't telling the truth. It's just that the G1 model just doesn't really apply to low-drag boat tail bullets. HMHO.

 

[chevytruck_83]

I only dabbled in the heavy 223 loading for a little. definitely a lot less then most on here but from what I found out anything over 80 grain that shoots well must be run so hot that its hard on brass. just a heads up.

 

[XTR]

I made mine for very similar reasons, now I'm also digging the complete lack of any recoil in an 18 lb F-TR rifle. ;D

If you have not gotten a barrel yet then get all you can get out to 28 or 30. I picked up a used Savage F class to build on. Varget or Re15 both work great in 223 with heavy bullets. I don't think you will gain much past 28 inches, there just isn't enough powder in there to keep it lit.

Got a Prefit bull barrel from McGowan for $315
Hand throater and T handle from PT&G for $99

No barrel you buy is going to have enough throat for what you want to shoot, and you probably don't want to buy a reamer. I throated my own out till I could seat the 80 Amax with the bearing surface above the neck/shoulder junction. (lots of measuring) This is 24.8gr of varget, WCC brass, Tula 223 primers and 80 Amax.

This wasn't even trying, was doing load work on one of my 308s at 200 yards and had the 223 with me at the range. I was letting the 308 cool between strings, I had 10 rounds left over from a 600 yard match. Shot 5 at a used target at 100 to get a zero then put the last 5 on this target someone left on the board, shot #3 I called as a flyer, #5 managed to get into the same spot as #3 somehow.

You need it throated out. Trying to drive the 80s or 90s with .25 inches of bullet in that little case it not going to make happy bullets.

 

[DRNewcomb]

I have talked to folks who are very keen on the Bartlein gain-twist barrels for this caliber. The idea is that the bullet starts out adding mostly linear energy. This allows a partially "free run" (not quite right but that's as good as I can explain it.) Once you get down the barrel a ways, the spin component picks up. At that point the chamber + barrel volume is greater and the pressure is past it's usual peak. You are converting more energy to spin, which extends the pressure curve. In short, it's supposed to be more efficient.

It's my belief that hot, heavy .223 bullets are an ideal application for properly molly coated bullets. IMHO.

 

[MarioM]

All of you have helped me HUGE. I went with a 26" barrel I know i'm prolly gonna have to go a little more to run the bullets at the length I need. I really want to shoot some good groups at 600-800. I am hoping to have my rig together by the weekend.

 

[XTR]

It's my belief that hot, heavy .223 bullets are an ideal application for properly molly coated bullets. IMHO.

Look up posts by "FroggyOne2" in the small stuff forum. Randy runs moly coated 90s out of a 30in rifle for Palma and long range HP shooting.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Good point. MarioM, when I was running my 80grainers out to 1000 yards, I was moly-coating them and the load was a couple of grains above book maximum. Now that I only use my .223 at 300-600, I have reduced the insane load somewhat.

 

[KevinThomas]

MarioM,

You can skip the 90s altogether; the 1x8" twist in your rifle won't work with them. The various 80s will work just fine, no problem at all. Good advice from those who suggested the longer barrel, but the 90s really need a 1x7" twist, and I've used 1x6" and 1x6.5" barrels with these successfully.

 

[MarioM]

Ya I figured I would be somewhere in the 80's range. Any idea on what some superb accuracy would be at the 600-800 mark with a good load?

MarioM,

You can skip the 90s altogether; the 1x8" twist in your rifle won't work with them. The various 80s will work just fine, no problem at all. Good advice from those who suggested the longer barrel, but the 90s really need a 1x7" twist, and I've used 1x6" and 1x6.5" barrels with these successfully.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I'm confused. MarioM says he's getting a 26 inch 1:7 twist Criterion, then he posts about a 24 inch 1:8 twist Wylde chamber.

Help me out here, which one is it? Also, why the fascination with the Wylde chamber for a long range gun? What you need is a long leade and a tight chamber, in my opinion. Criterion is button-rifled Kriegers, I believe. They offer a nice 5.56 Match chamber which is very tight and has a long leade. That's the one I have in my .223 F-TR rifle.

 

[MarioM]

I was suppose to pick up a 1:7 but they called back and said they only had a 1:8 I said fine and they only have a .223 wylde chamber which I said is ok. I wanna get to shooting it this summer I didnt want to wait 12-14 weeks.

I was going to shorten it up to 24 but then after I opened this thread decided not to. I went with the WYLDE for the reason I have alot of new LC 12 brass and 2nd well I had no option its what they had lol. So let me relist my specs. 26" Criterion .223 WYLDE Chamber and 1-8 twist Remington HV contour. I just got a 100 pieces of Lapua .223 also so I will use them to start with.

The way I understand it Criterion stands on there own now. Krieger sold them off or something 5-10 years ago??

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Understood, you have what you have.

Yes, Criterion seems to be on its own now, not that there's anything wrong with that. I checked their site and they do offer the 5.56 Match chamber, but that's moot now.

I shot quite a bit of Lapua brass in Wylde chambers and resized with regular dies. I had to throw all that brass out when I rebarreled with a 5.56 Match, the brass had expanded some due to the heavy loads I was using. I started using small base dies from the beginning with the new brass in the new barrel and now I'm a firm believer in small base dies for everything. Something to think about.

 

[MarioM]

I have a small base die set now that I use for my AR-15 that will be perfect.

Understood, you have what you have.

Yes, Criterion seems to be on its own now, not that there's anything wrong with that. I checked their site and they do offer the 5.56 Match chamber, but that's moot now.

I shot quite a bit of Lapua brass in Wylde chambers and resized with regular dies. I had to throw all that brass out when I rebarreled with a 5.56 Match, the brass had expanded some due to the heavy loads I was using. I started using small base dies from the beginning with the new brass in the new barrel and now I'm a firm believer in small base dies for everything. Something to think about.