Load work up help

[Shawn R.]

Hey all, noob almost ready to load my first ever round (a bit excited)... wanted to ask on here before I do.

Rifle- TC Compass 308 22" 5R barrel 1 in 12 twist
Brass- LC (FL Resized)
Headspace: 1.624 +/- 0.001
Case length: 2.010
Primer- WLR
Bullet- Sierra 165 Gameking HPBT
Powder- IMR 4166
Dummy Round-
Ogive: 2.269
OAL: 2.757

PLEASE, double check my work so far. Does this all look good?
Now the big question... working up my load... anyone by chance able to run me through quick load? Where should I start/ stop/ and what increments would you load?

I ran it through Hornady site, but it gives for 165 Hor SP out of a 24" barrel, WIN brass, FED 210M primer, COL of 2.750, start 40.2 grains and max 44.9 compressed.

Im going to be taking this slow and of course, watching for pressure signs... but any input is really appreciated!

How would you load your workups with this mix? I have 40 pieces of brass, thinking 3 or 5 groups and leaning towards 5 for room for error and slight inconsistencies.

 

[JB10]

Start .020 off lands for seating depth. I have found to start powder loads arround middle and work up frm there if you want some speeds. Could have a good load near min. But will run slower fps. I do not use that powder so can not tell you on charges. I load imr4064 and 175gr bergers. Look close at each case after firing for splitting cases. I did not have good luck with lake city brass for 308. I now run lapua.

 

[Shawn R.]

Start .020 off lands for seating depth. I have found to start powder loads arround middle and work up frm there if you want some speeds. Could have a good load near min. But will run slower fps. I do not use that powder so can not tell you on charges. I load imr4064 and 175gr bergers. Look close at each case after firing for splitting cases. I did not have good luck with lake city brass for 308. I now run lapua.

.020 off the lands for the gameking HPBT? I wasnt factoring in seating depth. Thank you. I was under the impression start kissing the lands, find the node powder wise, then work off/ into the lands, fine tune from there if desired or needed.

 

[JB10]

Yes find a powder charge first. Once you find one that is looking the best then change up the seating depth, closer to lands or further away. .020 is just a safe starying point. All my rifles like them touching the lands but one. If its for hunting i would stay just off for sake of any issues in the field.

 

[D-4297]

The reason for staying off the lands when beginning to load / reload , is so you don't have a bullet pulled out of the case , and dump powder all over the inside of the rifle , in case you have to remove a round before firing it . Makes a heck of a mess , and can really shorten up your test firing session . I shoot some of my Competition loads at .015 off touch , and they work good there . It is a process of experimentation , in finding out what your rifle likes . The suggestion of starting at .020 off was a excellent safety recommend to a "Noob" loader .

The word "compressed" in your OP caught my attention , and I would suggest staying away from ever compressing a load for one very serious reason . Pressure ! It is much easier , and safer to switch to another powder to increase velocity , than to compress a load that will also cause a increase in chamber pressure . Move up the Burn Chart , to N530 or H4895 , and you won't need to compress the load . Competition shooters load bigger loads , but we also load longer than magazine length , because we single feed the rounds . Always err on the side of caution , and safety .

 

[Shawn R.]

The reason for staying off the lands when beginning to load / reload , is so you don't have a bullet pulled out of the case , and dump powder all over the inside of the rifle , in case you have to remove a round before firing it . Makes a heck of a mess , and can really shorten up your test firing session . I shoot some of my Competition loads at .015 off touch , and they work good there . It is a process of experimentation , in finding out what your rifle likes . The suggestion of starting at .020 off was a excellent safety recommend to a "Noob" loader .

The word "compressed" in your OP caught my attention , and I would suggest staying away from ever compressing a load for one very serious reason . Pressure ! It is much easier , and safer to switch to another powder to increase velocity , than to compress a load that will also cause a increase in chamber pressure . Move up the Burn Chart , to N530 or H4895 , and you won't need to compress the load . Competition shooters load bigger loads , but we also load longer than magazine length , because we single feed the rounds . Always err on the side of caution , and safety .

Thank you for that, and i understand the reasoning. I do plan to come off the lands, question I have is where do sierra HPBTs tend to prefer... I know some like to jump and other like to be into the lands.

 

[Metal God]

First I’ll say welcome to the dark side ;-) . I have the hornady book and app and I don’t see IMR 4166 in the data you describe. I think you meant the Hodgdon website And those min to max charges sound reasonable to me .

Compressed loads are not a big deal , I run several compressed loads . Most of us do at some point if we know it or not . Light compressed loads have zero issues , moderately compressed loads are ok as well but you could start to see inconsistent seating depths by a few thou cus the powder is fighting back . Heavily compressed loads almost always have seating issue . If it doesn’t happen during sesting the compression can actually push the bullet back out some over time . Also the press has lots of leverage and you can deform the sized case if you overly compress your charge so you never really want to have heavy compression.

That all said , because you are new , I wouldn’t go any more then light compression if you get there . That is the bullet just starting to push on the powder at final seating depth . I have loads I can hear the powder crunching as I seat the bullet . You should not go there yet ;-)

 

[hoz53]

Hey all, noob almost ready to load my first ever round (a bit excited)... wanted to ask on here before I do.

Rifle- TC Compass 308 22" 5R barrel 1 in 12 twist
Brass- LC (FL Resized)
Headspace: 1.624 +/- 0.001
Case length: 2.010
Primer- WLR
Bullet- Sierra 165 Gameking HPBT
Powder- IMR 4166
Dummy Round-
Ogive: 2.269
OAL: 2.757

PLEASE, double check my work so far. Does this all look good?
Now the big question... working up my load... anyone by chance able to run me through quick load? Where should I start/ stop/ and what increments would you load?

I ran it through Hornady site, but it gives for 165 Hor SP out of a 24" barrel, WIN brass, FED 210M primer, COL of 2.750, start 40.2 grains and max 44.9 compressed.

Im going to be taking this slow and of course, watching for pressure signs... but any input is really appreciated!

How would you load your workups with this mix? I have 40 pieces of brass, thinking 3 or 5 groups and leaning towards 5 for room for error and slight inconsistencies.

looks like you must have a caliper. Do you have a way tomeasure shoulder bump?

 

[Patch 76]

Check out Erik Cortina's video on youtube about not chasing the lands.
Patch

 

[littlebuddybr]

Now the big question... working up my load... anyone by chance able to run me through quick load? Where should I start/ stop/ and what increments would you load?


1- I reccomend running a f.l. sized case in the gun before going to the next step. Just to make sure your die is set correctly.

2- where you should stop= most definitely look for snug bolt lift, hard case extraction, and inspect the case including the primers.

3- increments= .3 grain

4- start= I haven't used that powder.
But, start at the lower end of the reccomend ed load.

5- I would just load and shoot a few times before changing anything. (As long as the load is safe and functioning well) before changing anything.

6- after you feel comfortable with loading
And have some experience the move on to load development.

7- remember to only change 1 thing at a time.
Either powder charge, o.a.l. or primers, bullet,

Also if anything doesn't seem right, Stop!

Happy loading.

 

[HillBillyPirate]

Find Erik Cortina on YouTube. You will thank me later. He gives great information about precision reloading.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I read somewhere on Sierra website that the 165 gk requires a 1/10 twist rate. Also the hpbt is a "hard" bullet and does not expand well at lower velocities. If you see any sign of bullet instability you will be wasting components and time.

 

[dgeesaman]

.020 off the lands for the gameking HPBT? I wasnt factoring in seating depth. Thank you. I was under the impression start kissing the lands, find the node powder wise, then work off/ into the lands, fine tune from there if desired or needed.

Where to start wrt to the lands is always controversial. Not because anyone is wrong but because there are so many possible “right” answers. If you’re willing to load an additional ladder using a wide range of seating depth sit won’t matter anyway.

Most people seem to pick a seating depth and find an optimal powder charge first, then play with seating depth second. That’s a good approach for sure. Others do things in a different order, and if you get to know a particular bullet/powder/cartridge over the life of a few barrels you may well be able to do a narrow test and find an optimal load in very few iterations.

.308 is a pretty tunable cartridge with very good barrel life so conventional wisdom should work well.

Cortinas method for tuning involves occasionally loading a longer seating depth than the current optimum, and if it shoots as well, becomes the new optimum. Doing this with a few rounds every 100 or so shots should allow your seating depth to continually adjust as the barrel throat erodes. Simple, sensible.

 

[Shawn R.]

Thank you, everyone! I got side tracked away from this project for a while... family needed me. Im still trying to lock down a more appropriate start and max load for this recipe... i cant seem to dind anything by way of IMR 4166 WITH Sierra 165 HPBT. The closest i can find either has 165 Hornady SP or 168 Sierra Matchking... and the min max on both vary. 40.2 - 44.9C or 38.5 - 43.5C respectively... Factor in im using LC brass and for pressure concerns lowering the max by 1.5 grains. Combining the 2 load data ive found, that leaves me thinking, do I assume taking the highest min at say 40.5 (for ease of sticking to a 0.5 scale) - and lowest max minus 1.5 for LC brass at 42.5? How is that sounding to ya'll??? Is a 2 grain window enough to hopefully find a good node???

 

[Shawn R.]

looks like you must have a caliper. Do you have a way tomeasure shoulder bump?

Hoz, yea. Im using Hornady's headspace and found my sweet spot at 1.624. For this work up im figuring on running em at 1.623.

 

[Shawn R.]

First I’ll say welcome to the dark side ;-) . I have the hornady book and app and I don’t see IMR 4166 in the data you describe. I think you meant the Hodgdon website And those min to max charges sound reasonable to me .

Compressed loads are not a big deal , I run several compressed loads . Most of us do at some point if we know it or not . Light compressed loads have zero issues , moderately compressed loads are ok as well but you could start to see inconsistent seating depths by a few thou cus the powder is fighting back . Heavily compressed loads almost always have seating issue . If it doesn’t happen during sesting the compression can actually push the bullet back out some over time . Also the press has lots of leverage and you can deform the sized case if you overly compress your charge so you never really want to have heavy compression.

That all said , because you are new , I wouldn’t go any more then light compression if you get there . That is the bullet just starting to push on the powder at final seating depth . I have loads I can hear the powder crunching as I seat the bullet . You should not go there yet ;-)

Thanks foe catching that, yea, i meant the Hodgdon site. Id prefer to avoid compressed loads, for now, if I can. Atleast until I have more experience and a better understanding of what to watch out for. Before pushing limits. Maybe at least until I can afford to up my brass to Lapua.

 

[Shawn R.]

I read somewhere on Sierra website that the 165 gk requires a 1/10 twist rate. Also the hpbt is a "hard" bullet and does not expand well at lower velocities. If you see any sign of bullet instability you will be wasting components and time.

From what ive researched so far, 1/12 should be good to go. I got curious and could t find anything that says either with way. And Im avoiding the bare bottom max for that speed issue. Sadly I dont have and cant afford a chrono... so this is seat of pants testing for accuracy.

 

[Shawn R.]

If anyone is curious about, or just want a different approach about bullet jump... here is a pretty good article with tested argument for seating kissing or into the lands.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/03/21/bullet-jump-and-seating-depth-reloading-best-practices/
That said... what are other issues to be concerned with not jumping the lands?

 

[Metal God]

That said... what are other issues to be concerned with not jumping the lands?

I didn't read the article but the number one negative issue that you must be careful of is excessive start pressures when you seat into the lands . Seating into the lands is potentially much more dangerous then compressing the charge . As a new reloader I highly recommend against this practice at first . Seat NO CLOSER THEN .020 "OFF" THE LANDS when you are starting out . Better yet don't seat to any length other then what the manual suggest at first .

Right now as a brand new reloader . All you are trying to do is get a good safe consistent loading process that will allow you to get some safe to-spec reloads down range . It's OK to be looking at things you may want to try later but please don't get ahead of your self . Basic reloading skills should get you good groups . I was told this when I started and I'll tell you the same thing . Believe it or not . it's going to take you a year to understand completely how to produce the best loads for your firearms . Rushing will not get you there sooner , take it slow and enjoy this first step .