Load Problem (I think)

[Dans40X]

The inside of your bolt body to include the firing pin & spring to also include the trigger group needs to be dryer than a popcorn fart in temps colder that freezing, 32deg F scale.

At -40deg F scale(ambient) a couple grains of bullseye works wonders to light 60+ grains of powder.

Oh yea,temperature insensitive powders don't mean a hill of beans when mother nature rules the roost!
300+ fps velocity drop is normal at -30 to -50 deg F scale.

 

[fredhorace77]

Yes and sometimes you may need to reduce load because it will give more velocity. Matt

Ty

 

[bobinpa]

Update: Jim Borden diagnosed this almost immediately. He told me that I have screwed up and should NOT have put grease in the hole (now know is gas vent hole) in the bolt assembly. His stockmaker, Tom Meredith had included a syringe of grease which had a tip that fit perfectly in that hole. Take away lesson...just because it fits in the hole does not always mean you should put it in there. Thanks everyone for their input. If this does not solve the problem I will start over with magnum primers.

Just curious here.....how far were you shooting? Did the grease in the bolt do anything other than "create" a hang fire situation? I can't see how a hang fire could change the point of impact, unless of coarse it just caught you by surprise and you weren't on target when the gun went off. My other thought is unless you were shooting long range, I can't see how a regular vs magnum primer would make enough difference to make you miss a deer unless you were shooting maybe 250 yds plus...... I'm just trying to understand.

 

[SheepDog]

Reloader 26 is a temperature stabilized powder. the cold should not affect it very much at all. It is a powder made for magnum cartridges and using a magnum primer should produce good results. If you think that buck fever had a role in missing you are probably right. If you feel confident that the fever had no role then it is time to look elsewhere. You wouldn't be the first to get the tremors when pulling down on a target animal. I betjust about everyone has done that once.

 

[savagedasher]

No doubt about it Hell I flinch without the hang fire. Just have never missed before.

If you don't miss you haven't seperated the brass from the copper . Larry

Just curious here.....how far were you shooting? Did the grease in the bolt do anything other than "create" a hang fire situation? I can't see how a hang fire could change the point of impact, unless of coarse it just caught you by surprise and you weren't on target when the gun went off. My other thought is unless you were shooting long range, I can't see how a regular vs magnum primer would make enough difference to make you miss a deer unless you were shooting maybe 250 yds plus...... I'm just trying to understand.

When you have a hang fire there will be a mill second that nothing happens . I guarantee you will jerk the gun . Larry

 

[Mulligan]

Reloader 26 is a temperature stabilized powder. the cold should not affect it very much at all. It is a powder made for magnum cartridges and using a magnum primer should produce good results. If you think that buck fever had a role in missing you are probably right. If you feel confident that the fever had no role then it is time to look elsewhere. You wouldn't be the first to get the tremors when pulling down on a target animal. I betjust about everyone has done that once.

If you haven't had a bit of "buck fever" what's the point of hunting?

 

[CTK]

If you don't miss you haven't seperated the brass from the copper . Larry

When you have a hang fire there will be a mill second that nothing happens . I guarantee you will jerk the gun . Larry

I have missed two deer out of probably 30 prior and have missed 8 doe this year since has been cold. 2 culling trips. These shots were all 200y+.

 

[DocDoc]

I have missed two deer out of probably 30 prior and have missed 8 doe this year since has been cold. 2 culling trips. These shots were all 200y+.

The guys that don't miss in a hangfire spend time shooting a flintlock. Flinchlock might be more appropriate. It really teaches follow through.

 

[Webster]

I developed a hunting load for my 280 AI in warm weather. I missed 2 does in cold weather and took the rifle to the range to verify the POI. Now realize it was warm when retested the load. It was spot on. I missed several does yesterday in 20 degree temps. I do not have the exact powder weight handy but think was 61gr of RL26 using CCI BR2 (standard rifle) primers and Berger 168 VLD Hunting bullets. This was a .3" consistent load at 100y and gave me 2915fps avg. (warm weather). I chocked the misses up to a case of the shanks after verifying POI. Yesterday I felt like there was a very slight "hang fire" occurring. Click and then boom. I have a hell week at work and am short time to go to the range in the cold. Does any of this experience make any sense? Is this an example of needing magnum primers? I did not think that the primer difference would cause this pronounced of an issue. I have only shot one critter with the 168VLD and it performed perfectly (small doe). I have fleetingly questioned the possibility of a bad batch of bullets but have seen no blood and have not heard impacts.
Thanks, Craig

Last summer I was having a lot of misfires and hang fires. I seemed to solve the problem by adjusting my priming tool and not using as much force to seat the primer. I must have been forcing the primer anvil into the primer charge. This apparently caused a smaller amount of primer charge from being crushed between the cup and anvil by the firing pin. Not sure why I didn't have problems in the past. The problem seemed to start when I took the parts out of one Lee tool and put them in an identical tool with my small primer shell holder, different length on the seating rod travel? I have not had a misfire since I adjusted the priming tool. My old Lee priming tool isn't supposed to be adjustable. The shell holder is threaded and you can rotate it to reduce how far the seating pin protrudes above the shell holder. I backed the shell holder off until a seated primer protruded from the case head, then I rotated the shell holder down in small increments until the primer cup was 0.002" thou below the case head (measured with a digital caliper). I may have screwed it down a tiny bit more based on feel?

 

[jlow]

Update: Jim Borden diagnosed this almost immediately. He told me that I have screwed up and should NOT have put grease in the hole (now know is gas vent hole) in the bolt assembly. His stockmaker, Tom Meredith had included a syringe of grease which had a tip that fit perfectly in that hole. Take away lesson...just because it fits in the hole does not always mean you should put it in there. Thanks everyone for their input. If this does not solve the problem I will start over with magnum primers.

Shooting in extreme cold temps is a completely different game. Grease by definition because of their viscosity is very bad, but trust me even light weight lube like CLP can be bad news. I've seen AR-15 bolts lube with that stuff that turn into a thick cream in those temps when we are shooting 2-gun with complete FTF. My take home lesson is never lube your firing pin in those temps or you are asking for trouble.

 

[SheepDog]

Primers are supposed to bottom in the pocket. The anvil has to be compressed into the charge to work properly without deforming the cup.
On lubrication, I tried some silicone lube once - it dried like a wax and was formulated that way so as not to collect dust and dirt. it worked fine for the most part but after Mt. Saint Helen's temper tantrum I couldn't get that stuff out of the lube. I cleaned it all off and went back to my 50/50 mix of ATF and kerosene. I never hunted in Alaska or any place where it was colder than -20F so I don't know how it would work at those temps.

 

[jlow]

Rem oil works pretty good as almost all of it is solvent which all evaporates leaving a very thin coat of Teflon. I use this on my bolt.

 

[CTK]

My lubing of the firing pin area was quite simply a dumbass mistake. I have ordered the bolt disassembly tool and will be cleaning the whole thing with non-chlorinated brake cleaner. I still cannot wrap my head around how that would cause hangfires but not doubting it. You would think that it would either work or wouldn't. Worked fine when it was hot outside

 

[jlow]

My lubing of the firing pin area was quite simply a dumbass mistake. I have ordered the bolt disassembly tool and will be cleaning the whole thing with non-chlorinated brake cleaner. I still cannot wrap my head around how that would cause hangfires but not doubting it. You would think that it would either work or wouldn't. Worked fine when it was hot outside

We all make mistakes and in many ways this is how we learn. One thing to keep in mind is the main factor in your situation was temperature, and that affects your complete rifle and loaded ammunition. What I mean is even though one of your problems was the firing pin/grease, don’t discount the fact that you may have multiple things happening contributing to your perceived problem so don’t discount some of the other suggestion which were not firing pin related. My day job before I retired was a research scientist but my job mainly was trouble shooting and as such I have run across problems that multi-factorial many times.

 

[CTK]

We all make mistakes and in many ways this is how we learn. One thing to keep in mind is the main factor in your situation was temperature, and that affects your complete rifle and loaded ammunition. What I mean is even though one of your problems was the firing pin/grease, don’t discount the fact that you may have multiple things happening contributing to your perceived problem so don’t discount some of the other suggestion which were not firing pin related. My day job before I retired was a research scientist but my job mainly was trouble shooting and as such I have run across problems that multi-factorial many times.

Life was easier when my Remington 700 always went bang with $30 factory 270 Win ammo. I am not discounting the advice on checking my load. Just taking the firing pin variable out of the mix, and hoping like hell it solves the problem.

 

[RonAKA]

Reading this makes me question a side note...does a magnum primer indeed ignite to a higher hotter temperature than a non-magnum? For large rifle primers I am asking.

I was always under the impression that the only difference between a mag and non mag primer was the cup thickness and strength of the primer. Of course most of my experience has been with small rifle primers.

So is a magnum primer indeed hotter than a Non-magnum?

There is no difference in thickness between magnum and non magnum primers in the Large Rifle size. Whether or not the strength differs is a controversial subject.

There are differences between primers in energy produced. Have a look at the photos at this link. I think it is fair to say the magnum primers have more energy. But, energy varies a lot from brand to brand too.

 

[MrMajestic]

My lubing of the firing pin area was quite simply a dumbass mistake. I have ordered the bolt disassembly tool and will be cleaning the whole thing with non-chlorinated brake cleaner. I still cannot wrap my head around how that would cause hangfires but not doubting it. You would think that it would either work or wouldn't. Worked fine when it was hot outside

Oh it will mess with the firing pin when it gets cold! My brother had a 700 that the previous owner felt the need to spry WD40 in the trigger. Made for some real hangfires and misses when it was 20 degrees out! They both turn to glue when it gets cold!

 

[RonAKA]

My lubing of the firing pin area was quite simply a dumbass mistake. I have ordered the bolt disassembly tool and will be cleaning the whole thing with non-chlorinated brake cleaner. I still cannot wrap my head around how that would cause hangfires but not doubting it. You would think that it would either work or wouldn't. Worked fine when it was hot outside

If it is a Remington 700 or similar it is very easy to take the bolt apart to clean the firing pin without any special tools. I put a penny in the vice and hook the firing assembly over the penny. Pull and put another penny or coin in the slot to hold it there while you unthread it. Some claim they can do it by hooking the bolt over their shoelace, but I suspect that only works for the young fit guys that can still touch their toes! In any case here is a video on how to do it. The method is also described in the Remington Owners Manual...

 

[CTK]

If it is a Remington 700 or similar it is very easy to take the bolt apart to clean the firing pin without any special tools. I put a penny in the vice and hook the firing assembly over the penny. Pull and put another penny or coin in the slot to hold it there while you unthread it. Some claim they can do it by hooking the bolt over their shoelace, but I suspect that only works for the young fit guys that can still touch their toes! In any case here is a video on how to do it. The method is also described in the Remington Owners Manual...

Thanks, I will take a look at the video. The action is a Borden. I think it is basically a clone but will check. Borden tool is on its way.

 

[Mulligan]

Life was easier when my Remington 700 always went bang with $30 factory 270 Win ammo. I am not discounting the advice on checking my load. Just taking the firing pin variable out of the mix, and hoping like hell it solves the problem.

Life will be better with a clean bolt/firing pin and spring.
It is fairly amazing how slow things move when grease gets cold.
CW