Load Problem (I think)

[CTK]

I developed a hunting load for my 280 AI in warm weather. I missed 2 does in cold weather and took the rifle to the range to verify the POI. Now realize it was warm when retested the load. It was spot on. I missed several does yesterday in 20 degree temps. I do not have the exact powder weight handy but think was 61gr of RL26 using CCI BR2 (standard rifle) primers and Berger 168 VLD Hunting bullets. This was a .3" consistent load at 100y and gave me 2915fps avg. (warm weather). I chocked the misses up to a case of the shanks after verifying POI. Yesterday I felt like there was a very slight "hang fire" occurring. Click and then boom. I have a hell week at work and am short time to go to the range in the cold. Does any of this experience make any sense? Is this an example of needing magnum primers? I did not think that the primer difference would cause this pronounced of an issue. I have only shot one critter with the 168VLD and it performed perfectly (small doe). I have fleetingly questioned the possibility of a bad batch of bullets but have seen no blood and have not heard impacts.
Thanks, Craig

 

[RonAKA]

For sure I would go to a Hodgdon Extreme powder like H1000, and the magnum primer cannot hurt. Just back your load down a touch if you are near maximum and work back up to make sure you have no pressure issue. You may also want to check your bolt. If you can take it apart make sure everything touching or associated with the firing pin is clean and free of any grease. Lubricate only with a special low temperature gun oil made for extreme cold weather.

 

[savagedasher]

I found in cold weather and a case that holds over 50 GR of powder you should use mag primers
As far as missing welcome to the club of excitement . Larry

 

[dkhunt14]

Cold weather and ignition gets tougher. Larry's right if it gets over about 55 grains and cold you are better off with a magnum primer. Especially if the powder is slower then 4350. Maybe the coatings on Re26 has something to do with it. I believe it is like the RE50 And RE33 where it is coated to slow down the burn and make more velocity. Matt

 

[CTK]

Cold weather and ignition gets tougher. Larry's right if it gets over about 55 grains and cold you are better off with a magnum primer. Especially if the powder is slower then 4350. Maybe the coatings on Re26 has something to do with it. I believe it is like the RE50 And RE33 where it is coated to slow down the burn and make more velocity. Matt

I have been thinking on the same lines but you would think there are a ton of people out there in colder climates than mine that would have already encountered this issue. By now there are probably many out there with a 270 win case stuffed full of Re26, standard primer, hunting in 0 degree weather. Not saying is not possible, but you would think we would have heard about it already. I thought that the cold weather potential negative effect of a standard primer with slow powder was simply slightly less velocity.

 

[CTK]

For sure I would go to a Hodgdon Extreme powder like H1000, and the magnum primer cannot hurt. Just back your load down a touch if you are near maximum and work back up to make sure you have no pressure issue. You may also want to check your bolt. If you can take it apart make sure everything touching or associated with the firing pin is clean and free of any grease. Lubricate only with a special low temperature gun oil made for extreme cold weather.

I will check out the bolt if can figure out how to open it. It is a Borden action. Calling Jim now.

 

[savagedasher]

I have been thinking on the same lines but you would think there are a ton of people out there in colder climates than mine that would have already encountered this issue. By now there are probably many out there with a 270 win case stuffed full of Re26, standard primer, hunting in 0 degree weather. Not saying is not possible, but you would think we would have heard about it already. I thought that the cold weather potential negative effect of a standard primer with slow powder was simply slightly less velocity.

For years all reload books said the same thing . Larry

 

[jlow]

I have been thinking on the same lines but you would think there are a ton of people out there in colder climates than mine that would have already encountered this issue. By now there are probably many out there with a 270 win case stuffed full of Re26, standard primer, hunting in 0 degree weather. Not saying is not possible, but you would think we would have heard about it already. I thought that the cold weather potential negative effect of a standard primer with slow powder was simply slightly less velocity.

Actually the problem is most likely because the reduction in velocity can cause the load to move out of its accuracy node which I guess is the main problem. The barrel profile of the rifles usually determine how wide the accuracy nodes are. For a hunting rifle, because weight is a key factor, they tend to have thinner barrels which means they have narrow accuracy nodes. This of course means it is easier for the load to move out of the accuracy node due to a reduction of MV.

 

[savagedasher]

Hang fire is comon in shooting muzzle loaders the way it is fixed is hotter ignition . My advice is put some mag primers in and shoot the in the cold Colder the better . And don't put them in your pocket or car Larry

 

[CTK]

I am not discounting the advice to use a magnum primer. I just did not expect the impact to be this major. The slight "hang fire" I noticed has me perplexed. No doubt something is amiss. Sucks that it happened toward the end of hunting season. I will have to start over with magnum primers. Lucky thing is that I have a box of 215M's that have been sitting untouched in my closet for several years. I am likely going to switch over to hunting my 6.5x47 until get things sorted out.

 

[savagedasher]

I am not discounting the advice to use a magnum primer. I just did not expect the impact to be this major. The slight "hang fire" I noticed has me perplexed. No doubt something is amiss. Sucks that it happened toward the end of hunting season. I will have to start over with magnum primers. Lucky thing is that I have a box of 215M's that have been sitting untouched in my closet for several years. I am likely going to switch over to hunting my 6.5x47 until get things sorted out.

You don't thinking the hang fire cause a flinch . I hate it when it happens. Smile Larry

 

[MTlager]

I use cci 250 with RL 26 with no problems in my 7 cals. Awhile back I put some loaded rounds in the freezer for 1/2 day then went out and shot them with my magneto on with 15 degree temp outside and had no loss in velocity! 215 's never worked that good for me until I get up to the bigger cases with 80 grains of powder or more. Have heard of the BR 2's not working in cold weather.

Lonnie

 

[CTK]

You don't thinking the hang fire cause a flinch . I hate it when it happens. Smile Larry

No doubt about it Hell I flinch without the hang fire. Just have never missed before.

 

[CTK]

Update: Jim Borden diagnosed this almost immediately. He told me that I have screwed up and should NOT have put grease in the hole (now know is gas vent hole) in the bolt assembly. His stockmaker, Tom Meredith had included a syringe of grease which had a tip that fit perfectly in that hole. Take away lesson...just because it fits in the hole does not always mean you should put it in there. Thanks everyone for their input. If this does not solve the problem I will start over with magnum primers.

 

[Cool Tool]

I developed a hunting load for my 280 AI in warm weather. I missed 2 does in cold weather and took the rifle to the range to verify the POI. Now realize it was warm when retested the load. It was spot on. I missed several does yesterday in 20 degree temps. I do not have the exact powder weight handy but think was 61gr of RL26 using CCI BR2 (standard rifle) primers and Berger 168 VLD Hunting bullets. This was a .3" consistent load at 100y and gave me 2915fps avg. (warm weather). I chocked the misses up to a case of the shanks after verifying POI. Yesterday I felt like there was a very slight "hang fire" occurring. Click and then boom. I have a hell week at work and am short time to go to the range in the cold. Does any of this experience make any sense? Is this an example of needing magnum primers? I did not think that the primer difference would cause this pronounced of an issue. I have only shot one critter with the 168VLD and it performed perfectly (small doe). I have fleetingly questioned the possibility of a bad batch of bullets but have seen no blood and have not heard impacts.
Thanks, Craig

I think your powder is to slow.

 

[RonAKA]

I've shot a 264 WM for many years in temperatures down to -40 (F or C). Used H4831 (Extreme powder) and magnum primers and have had not issues. I am super careful with my bolt though. If I can't or don't have time to get it apart I spray it down with a carburator or throttle body cleaner. There is a little bit of residual oil, and I feel that is enough for lube.

 

[Mulligan]

Take away lesson...just because it fits in the hole does not always mean you should put it in there

So true!
'Bout fell out of my chair laughing.
CW

 

[joshb]

Sounds like there's a "beer goggle" story in there, some where.

 

[fredhorace77]

Cold weather and ignition gets tougher. Larry's right if it gets over about 55 grains and cold you are better off with a magnum primer. Especially if the powder is slower then 4350. Maybe the coatings on Re26 has something to do with it. I believe it is like the RE50 And RE33 where it is coated to slow down the burn and make more velocity. Matt

Reading this makes me question a side note...does a magnum primer indeed ignite to a higher hotter temperature than a non-magnum? For large rifle primers I am asking.

I was always under the impression that the only difference between a mag and non mag primer was the cup thickness and strength of the primer. Of course most of my experience has been with small rifle primers.

So is a magnum primer indeed hotter than a Non-magnum?

 

[dkhunt14]

Reading this makes me question a side note...does a magnum primer indeed ignite to a higher hotter temperature than a non-magnum? For large rifle primers I am asking.

I was always under the impression that the only difference between a mag and non mag primer was the cup thickness and strength of the primer. Of course most of my experience has been with small rifle primers.

So is a magnum primer indeed hotter than a Non-magnum?

Yes and sometimes you may need to reduce load because it will give more velocity. Matt