Load for 223 Rem with 80.5 Bergers

[RHux]

Today I started at 21.3gr of 8208 in Lake City brass with Fed Match primers . The COAL is 2.468 in a Wylde chamber , which is .015 off the lands . 22 and 22.5 showed good groups at 100yds with SD in the teens. I went all the way up to 24.0 gr which gave me 2824 fps with an SD of 8. I had no hard bolt lift or ejector marks for any loads and the primers looked remarkably alike at all loads. The best part is a one hole 3 shot group for the 24gr load. I was hoping someone with Quickload would run the numbers to keep me out of trouble.......

 

[RHux]

Thanks for the rely. I am glad to see that you are at a similar velocity with all your fingers .

 

[Webster]

The Berger manual gives the max load with the Berger 80.5 gr bullet and IMR 8208 XBR as 21.3 grains 2718 fps. It's your decision.

 

[waldo1979]

I've noticed that the Berger manual tends to be on the conservative side or maybe they just get you closer to the accuracy node. I recently worked some 75gr VLDs and the Berger manual was 2 gr's lighter on max pressure.

Then again I loaded some 80gr sierras recently and Quickload was way off on pressure. Popped a primer at 22.9gr of VV N135 in a 24" 1:7.7 krieger barrel with a seating depth of 2.410" using Lapua brass w/ a 30.5gr H2O capacity. Maybe it's just me but it seems harder to read pressure signs on CCI #41 military spec primers

 

[RHux]

any data on Psi drop going from 2.260 COAL to 2.468 COAL

 

[Berger.Fan222]

QL suggests 80,000 psi for 2.260 OAL and 66,000 psi for 2.468" OAL with 24 grains of 8028.

That's a bit on the warm side if your overflow case capacity is really close to 28.80 grains of water.

I'd measure the case capacity of your cases after firing. Unless your cases can hold a bit more water than that, you are likely in an over pressure condition and should scale back. Even with 30.00 grains of water case capacity, QL predicts 60,000 psi for 2.468" OAL and 24 grains of 8028.

 

[RHux]

21.3 load from the book lists 2718 at 2.260.....I get 2,540 at 2.485 coal. Thank you for your replies

 

[RHux]

Case capacity 30.6

 

[Laurie]

57,206 psi PMax modelled. MVs estimated as:

22" ..... 2,780
24" ..... 2,829
26" ..... 2,873
28" ..... 2,912
30" ..... 2,947

by barrel length.

Most Berger loads will be conservative for AccurateShooter members as they are 100% based on SAAMI / CIP COALs. In many smaller cartridges with heavier bullets as here, 0.2 or 0.25" extra COAL in a throat to suit makes a HUGE difference to pressures. Likewise, QuickLOAD's default 28.8gn water capacity is a safety first value presumably using the lowest capacity case that Herr Broemel could find, likely European military which unlike US LC brass is very heavy and has a severely limited capacity. I bought 250 new MEN (German milspec) cases some years back - good quality and very strong but I had to drop charges for 69-75s by 1.5-2.0gn from loads worked up in Winchester brass.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Most Berger loads will be conservative for AccurateShooter members as they are 100% based on SAAMI / CIP COALs. In many smaller cartridges with heavier bullets as here, 0.2 or 0.25" extra COAL in a throat to suit makes a HUGE difference to pressures. Likewise, QuickLOAD's default 28.8gn water capacity is a safety first value presumably using the lowest capacity case that Herr Broemel could find, likely European military which unlike US LC brass is very heavy and has a severely limited capacity. I bought 250 new MEN (German milspec) cases some years back - good quality and very strong but I had to drop charges for 69-75s by 1.5-2.0gn from loads worked up in Winchester brass.

Good point about the conservative case capacities, but I like to measure my brass and be sure before I creep the charge above QL (or book) max levels. After measuring the case volume, I re-run the numbers in QL and consider the output carefully.

There is a chart of .223 Rem case capacities here:

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

 

[RHux]

Laurie , you data lines up spot on with my real world experience. Now on to 168Hybrids in Palma cases with 8208...

 

[Laurie]

I've found that they (168 Hybrids) work best treated like a VLD and seated 10-15 thou' in the lands, and many others I know who've tried this bullet report the same thing.

Depending on your chamber throat (mine is set up for the 185gn Juggernaut) you should be able to work up to 44gn, maybe a little more to just exceed 2,900fps from 30-32 inches.

I can't remember if I tried this powder with the 168, probably not as I think it's a little fast burning for the bullet weight. I did get very good results from 46 and a bit gn 8208 with the 155.5gn Berger in Palma brass and for 3,050 fps in a 32 inch barrel. There are powders that give more velocities with 155s, but I like 8208 for the groups I can tune it to provide allied to really small MV spreads.

 

[dcali]

A question about the Berger manual - it appears after a close reading that the numbers in it are based on software rather than test firings. They don't say so clearly, but it seems implied. Is the whole thing just a regurgitation of QuickLOAD?

 

[memilanuk]

Pretty much.