Load development woes

[bsekf]

So, I am working with a sporting rifle/24" CBI varmint barrel, 6-24 scope, and 6.5x47L. I do my ladder tests at 200 yds (120 Horn ELD and Varget), have my bullets just touch the lands, load 2 of each powder charge. I get a full grain of powder 36, 36.5 and 37 that are nearly in one 1/2 inch hole. "hot dog, I got a winner here" The next day I adjust OAL, 3 rounds with 36.5 and seated .01 into the lands, 3 just kissing, and then 3 backed off .01 for 4 times (six 3 shot loads). I shoot 6 targets round robin and don't have one load that groups under an inch and they are an inch higher than yesterday's ladder! WTH!!! Is there a possibility the day to day change in atmospheric conditions could cause this? I did not clean the rifle, it usually doesn't start to open up till after 50+ rounds. Early morning, no wind.

I am sure it is me and my bench technique........ but I wonder if anybody else has this happen. I feel as if I have to start over with a different bullet. I like Varget because of temp stability. I have a 130 Berger load/ RL 15 that shoots < 1 inch at 200, but I am always hoping for something better.

Bill

 

[Lefty Trigger]

My Savage 6.5 Creedmoor really likes the 123gr ELD's at .020 off the lands. The Nosler 140gr RDF's seem happy at .015 for my gun. Maybe their not happy without a jump? Oh, my 6.5 does like Varget at all. Plays well with H100V and H4350 and currently trying 8208XBR and Reloader-19. Not sure about that 8208 as it is a really fast powder but Nosler claims it to be an accuracy powder, we'll see....

 

[Webster]

So, I am working with a sporting rifle/24" CBI varmint barrel, 6-24 scope, and 6.5x47L. I do my ladder tests at 200 yds (120 Horn ELD and Varget), have my bullets just touch the lands, load 2 of each powder charge. I get a full grain of powder 36, 36.5 and 37 that are nearly in one 1/2 inch hole. "hot dog, I got a winner here" The next day I adjust OAL, 3 rounds with 36.5 and seated .01 into the lands, 3 just kissing, and then 3 backed off .01 for 4 times (six 3 shot loads). I shoot 6 targets round robin and don't have one load that groups under an inch and they are an inch higher than yesterday's ladder! WTH!!! Is there a possibility the day to day change in atmospheric conditions could cause this? I did not clean the rifle, it usually doesn't start to open up till after 50+ rounds. Early morning, no wind.

I am sure it is me and my bench technique........ but I wonder if anybody else has this happen. I feel as if I have to start over with a different bullet. I like Varget because of temp stability. I have a 130 Berger load/ RL 15 that shoots < 1 inch at 200, but I am always hoping for something better.

Bill

Is it glass bedded. Does the barrel touch the forearm?

 

[bsekf]

It is pillar bedded and free floated in a laminated stock. My question is why it shoots gangbusters and 24 hours later won't shoot in an inch.

Bill

 

[Richard Coody]

It is pillar bedded and free floated in a laminated stock. My question is why it shoots gangbusters and 24 hours later won't shoot in an inch.

Bill

that is a good question.

how are you measuring powder?

i believe i would try H4350 and some 139 gr lapua scenars or 140 gr berger hybrids
start about 38.5 to 39 gr and work up.

 

[chop house]

It is pillar bedded and free floated in a laminated stock. My question is why it shoots gangbusters and 24 hours later won't shoot in an inch.

Bill

was the brass new on day one, once fired on day two? did you chrono and see about a 0.5 grain increase in velocity on day two, any chance?

 

[Texas10]

I'd suspect it's your bench technique, since you make no mention of your set up. Powder measures, seating dies, scales, all those things don't really change. The biggest factor, at least with me, is ME. How I address the gun, my rear bag being in proper alignment, my front rest being stable and LOCKED, did I pick a wobbly bench...the list goes on. What ever you did on day one, go back and analyze it to death and then repeat it.

I can load up 50 rounds, shoot the first 5 into a bug-hole group, and then scatter the next 10 all over the target. That ain't the load, or the gun. It's the nut behind barrel.

I'll bet a dollar to a donut (wait, that doesn't work anymore, donuts are a dollar) that you put that first shot right in the bullseye, and then subconsciously repeated exactly the same pressure on the butt pad, or forearm, or what ever for each following shot, very consistently.

And if you're an old fart like me, you completely FORGOT exactly what you did the next time out

 

[dsculley]

You said this barrel does not usually open up until about 50 rounds, so this is not a new barrel. What about the brass? I am assuming it is not new and has been fired in this rifle before. How much are you setting the shoulders back?

Does the Berger/RL 15 consistently shoot < 1"? How many rounds in these groups? Perhaps you should try RL15 with the 120 ELD's.

I have a CBI barrel on my Savage in 6.5x47 and I don't think it has ever shot a bad group except when i was working on seating depth. Seating depth made more difference that any amount of powder. I would suggest that you run the Berger seating depth test with your 36.5 gr load. You did not test a very wide seating area.

Yes, it is possible to shoot small groups one day only to have them open up the next, however if you are on a good, wide node it is less likely. What about you? Were you the same physically and mentally both days? In a bit of a rush the second day, have something on your mind, etc? What about your rifle, did you check your action screws and scope ring/base screws?

Based on your stated group sizes, you were shooting at 200 yds and the first day the groups were ~1/4 MOA and the second ~1/2 MOA. It doesn't take much for groups to open up 1/4 MOA.

 

[grovey]

I'd steer away from the ELD's . I had the same experience with the .22 cal version. I shot waaay too many. I switched to a better bullet, and my troubles were over. The gun now shoots better than I care to post.

 

[cw308]

My suggestion would be , once you hit on a promising reload , meaning case sized that headspace from bolt face to datum line , powder charge and OAL from ogive jump or jam what ever works best . Stick with that load for awhile and work on your form ,without thinking what do I try next . I shoot at a one inch square box outline 1/4" thick black outline 3 on a page horizontal on 81/2 x 11 white sheet , with your scope set on 24 power , zero an shoot at 200 yards . Shoot 3 ten shot groups 10 per target . Wouldn't count on a group less then five shots .Give your rifle a fair start with a clean dry barrel every 30 rounds . Don't change powders without a good cleaning . Shooting dry no need for foul shot . Work on your form most important.
P.S. Make sure your parallex setting is correct then make sure
by looking through your scope moving your head slightly up an down an side to side , cross shouldn't move , then your good to go . When your parallex is off your fine tuned reloads will shoot like a shotgun pattern

Hope I Helped in some way.
Chris

 

[bsekf]

Thanks guys, I am not alone and I am an old fart and I know some days my eyes don't work just right. I do not FLR, I use a collet die and only FL , anneal and sq. case mouth every 4-5 reloads I don't believe it is my reloading equipment or technique.

I just wondered if it could be change in humidity and temperature and if anybody else had noticed it.

Thanks for reminding me that I'm OLD!

Bill

 

[cw308]

Bill
Temperture will effect POI but will still group high in the heat or low in the cold .

 

[Homerange]

Things that help me when I've gone to hell on a handcart.

Breathe, breathe......and again.
Double check technique.
DON'T care where your shots land.......ever ! The next shot should always be as good as your last. Focus, focus, focus on groups, the best you have ever shot !
Never hurry ! Too many shooting errors will go uncorrected.
Don't try too many shots, fatigue will get the better of you.
Did I mention to check technique ?
Be prepared to do it all again tomorrow if you're not properly 'in the zone'.

Your load has gone off song as the brass capacity has increased now it's fire formed.
Up the load just a touch to compensate.

I'm loading LCD too but never anneal.

 

[PatMiles]

The gun now shoots better than I care to post.

Liar!

 

[grovey]

Liar!

Yeah, I don't need the grief that comes with it. I posted some pics of groups in the .1's and .2's on the factory gun bashing thread, but decided to delete them so as not to be a part of the bbl measuring contest that the thread turned into.

 

[Beau]

I suspect it is simply variance about the mean.

Back those bullets off .035" and move in by 5 thou at a a time.