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Load Development 45acp

McGrew

I just bought some Vihtavuori N310 and am planning on working up a new target load in 45acp using 200 grain Blue SWC bullets. I have never shot N310 before. When loading for accuracy in my rifles, I do ladder tests and find the velocity nodes. Once I decide on which node to load, I then start testing different bullet depths (CBTO).

In pistol ammo, specifically 45acp, is it worth shooting a ladder test over my chronograph to find a velocity node? Or do i just see which load gives me the best group? I should probably add that I am just some guy trying to get the most out of his 1911. The biggest variable is most likely the nut squeezing the trigger... Any thoughts greatly appreciated! Thanks! Danny
 
McGrew said:
I just bought some Vihtavuori N310 and am planning on working up a new target load in 45acp using 200 grain Blue SWC bullets. I have never shot N310 before. When loading for accuracy in my rifles, I do ladder tests and find the velocity nodes. Once I decide on which node to load, I then start testing different bullet depths (CBTO).

In pistol ammo, specifically 45acp, is it worth shooting a ladder test over my chronograph to find a velocity node? Or do i just see which load gives me the best group? I should probably add that I am just some guy trying to get the most out of his 1911. The biggest variable is most likely the nut squeezing the trigger... Any thoughts greatly appreciated! Thanks! Danny
Click to expand...
Yes, do a ladder test but I would be more concerned with pressure signs and look at accuracy and 100% function (cycling every round) over velocity. I have not used the powder you mentioned, but have a load with a 200 LSWC that is very acceptable in accuracy and function in multiple 1911's that I have (factory thru custom). My load is NOT on the hot side, just a medium that is accurate and functions every time.
I sort some of my brass, but a good portion is all mixed and never had an issue with it. I do a use a chamber checker to ensure all my rounds are in spec as my barrels are factory and custom.

Take your time in your load development and enjoy your 1911.
Keep us updated with your loading.

Tim
 
I've loaded10's of thousands of pistol cartridges but I never focused on the most accurate load. I would suggest just shoot groups at different powder charges and see if one is better than the rest. N310 is a fast powder so you'll need to be careful you don't get into an over-pressure situation.

What pistol are you loading for? Be aware that the original 1911 barrel design does not fully support the case.
 
McGrew said:
I just bought some Vihtavuori N310 and am planning on working up a new target load in 45acp using 200 grain Blue SWC bullets. I have never shot N310 before. When loading for accuracy in my rifles, I do ladder tests and find the velocity nodes. Once I decide on which node to load, I then start testing different bullet depths (CBTO).

In pistol ammo, specifically 45acp, is it worth shooting a ladder test over my chronograph to find a velocity node? Or do i just see which load gives me the best group? I should probably add that I am just some guy trying to get the most out of his 1911. The biggest variable is most likely the nut squeezing the trigger... Any thoughts greatly appreciated! Thanks! Danny
Click to expand...
No, a latter test for pistol ammo in a 1911 is not a thing that is practiced by anyone I know, and I shoot pistol’s completely. Load development is mostly used to ensure reliable functioning. For example, is seating depth and case crimp correct to allow for reliable loading.

FYI, If your 1911 does not have a barrel that has been custom fitted to the slide, slide-release pin, and barrel bushing then accuracy is not going to be optimized for that model of pistol.

With that said, I have shot my way through many pounds of VV N310 in my 1911 custom built target pistol. My go to load for 45acp is 185gr JHP with 4.0-4.2gr and a large pistol primer. This is a relatively soft shooting load that I use with a 12 lb recoil spring.

I would probably try 3.8gr-4.0gr of N310 with a lead 200gr SWC.
 
FWIW
This is the VV load data for 200 grain. Every rig will prefer a slightly different bullet, bullet diameter, speed, etc. If you are doing a load workup near these charges, you will probably find something you like without too much fuss.

Looks like 4.0 to 4.7 grains with N310 runs roughly 823 to 928 fps.

I use a chrono in parallel especially if there are strict rules about speed or Power Factors, but also to make sure things are going as expected in terms of pressure and safety margin. YMMV
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloadin...ction-shooting/#/imperials/2/52/-1/SWC HS/200

1734580217611.png
 
Thank you fellas! I plan to stay within the min/max range from Vihtavuori. While they do not list loads for Blue bullets, they have other brands of SWC in the 200 grain weight. They say 3.9-4.7 grains. Most of the reports I read from bullseye shooters say to stay on the low end of that range. That is my plan. Since I am trying to develop a target load, these rounds will be used in either my 70 series Gold Cup, or more likely my Kimber Gold Combat Stainless or my retirement gift, the Ed Brown Custom Classic. All three are a lot more accurate than me... Thanks for all the info! Will keep you informed! Danny
 
FWIW whenI got my Les Baer P II for target I went with Missouri bullet 200 gr H&G profile.
Called in for a question and Les actually answered the phone, told me his guns, as a matter of fact most tuned 1911’s perform great right around 800 fps.
I shoot 4 gr of 310 as well as Clays, works well.
 
The 45 ACP is not picky on powder brand. Any one of close to a dozen powders will produce excellent results. You were given good advice on keeping your velocities on the low side. I've never had my best groups at the high end with the 45. Normally best at around 725-850 FPS, depending on whether its a 50' or 50 yard load. On paper targets, speed isn't important, reliability and accuracy are.

To save you some wasted time, it's a squandering of components to do a ladder test or chronograph 45 loads. I own my own Ransom Rest and have tested hundreds of combinations. Some of the best shooting loads had very large ES. I made the mistake of trying to load 45's like my varmint rifles. It's not a varmint cartridge or platform.

Different brands of brass have different wall thicknesses, keep them sorted. Thick brass will have a greater amount of bullet tension than thin brass. Federal is one of the thickest, Rem & TZZ are the thinnest. A load perfected with TZZ brass & then switched to Federal brass would add .006 more bullet tension to the load. Experiment with different amounts of taper crimp. My best 25 yard load in one of my wadcutter guns is crimped to .462. It will put 10 shots in <3/4". Normal taper crimp is around .468-.469. Brass length makes little to no difference in accuracy.

Bullet bases must be perfect for best 50 yard accuracy. 25 yards & under, just about anything will shoot 1 1/2" or less in a well tuned 1911 (provided the bullets fit your bore, .0005-.001 over bore diameter).

Here's a link to the favorite loads of the Masters on the Bullseye List. Its excellent. Pay attention to those loads used by the High Masters.
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t1209-pet-loads-of-top-shooters-loads-from-the-past

My suggestions come from the standpoint of a dedicated Bullseye shooter. If you're shooting steel or hunting, things change.
Al
 
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Following as i'm not satisfied with my Sr 6711 yet. I will be getting back to it after the holidays. Don't forget the plunk test, it is a must. Ask me how I know lol.
 
I shot competitive NRA Precision Pistol for 30 + years. Mostly with revolvers as a civilian but also with the 1911 (Army Post Team) and Hi Standard 22 LR for a brief time. While I never master the 45 ACP, I knew several master class shooters with this pistol both in the Army and civilian life.

50-yard X ring was the standard for any competitive 1911 when tested from a Ranson Rest. We used Winchester Target Master ammo with is capable of meeting this standard in an accurized 1911.

Reloads in civilian life were a straightforward proposition. Most civilian top shooters I knew use 185 or 200 grain lead bullets with either 231 or Bullseye. Few if any I knew did load development since target loads had long been well established.

The point is that when it came to equipment, it was the accurizing of the pistol that made all the difference in top competition, not the reloads assuming one used established Bullseye competition loads. Also, anyone who has shot the 45 ACP in NRA Bullseye Competition will tell you that it is a difficult pistol to master. Thus, it is the degree of accurizing of the pistol and the skill of the shooter which are the essential key factors, not reloads.
 
Thanks for all the info guys! @Hengehold and @RegionRat, that is great information. Thank you! @stork, I have tons of Federal (mostly SPP) and Winchester brass. I am rather anal about my brass and always sort by headstamp (and primer size). As for powders, I have used Bullseye, Blue Dot and most recently CFE Pistol in 45acp. Would have stayed with BE, but find it dirty and not readily available. Thank you for the link! I had the same one bookmarked! I have always crimped to .470 with my Dillon taper crimp die, and seat and crimp in two separate stations. @K22, my 1911's are more accurate than me. Accurizing them would be like putting lipstick on a pig... Its not the gun, its the shooter, or as you put it the skill...
@Link , I run all my ammo through a SAAMI minimum chamber size checker. Anything that passes this test will chamber in all my 1911's. Thanks again! Danny
 
McGrew said:
Thanks for all the info guys! @Hengehold and @RegionRat, that is great information. Thank you! @stork, I have tons of Federal (mostly SPP) and Winchester brass. I am rather anal about my brass and always sort by headstamp (and primer size). As for powders, I have used Bullseye, Blue Dot and most recently CFE Pistol in 45acp. Would have stayed with BE, but find it dirty and not readily available. Thank you for the link! I had the same one bookmarked! I have always crimped to .470 with my Dillon taper crimp die, and seat and crimp in two separate stations. @K22, my 1911's are more accurate than me. Accurizing them would be like putting lipstick on a pig... Its not the gun, its the shooter, or as you put it the skill...
@Link , I run all my ammo through a SAAMI minimum chamber size checker. Anything that passes this test will chamber in all my 1911's. Thanks again! Danny
Click to expand...

Back in my day, you could not buy a factory 45 that was match ready out of the box. Even the Colt Gold Cup would not meet the exacting standards of NRA Bullseye competition. Most if not all have to be refitted to some degree depending on the factory fit.

Today you can buy them factory ready for Bullseye competition. I only mentioned it because having a match level pistol is essential for top level competition. Next on the list is hours of structured practice to develop the skill necessary especially for the timed and rapid stages.
 
I always focused on groups and finding a load that cycled the gun comfortably and reliably. I never worried a whole lot about velocity variance due to the distance I'm shooting. I prefer upper mid range loads versus hot. They're a lot more comfortable to shoot.
 
Funny story on this subject. We had a fellow in our area who was a terrific shooter. Shot and won lots of groundhog and short range bench rest matches. He was anal and suffered from OCD I am sure. He was a craftsmen who did beautiful work. So putting all this into reloading perfect, building perfect guns, great bench manners etc. it wore him down. He just up and quit. Sold everything. Couple of lucky guys bought terrific bench guns. He announced he was going into bullseye handgun shooting as it would be less stressful. I lost touch with him. About 2 years later I go to the range and there he is. Multiple high end custom 1911s, dozens of boxes of crafted ammo, shooting 50 yd groups out of a Ransom rest. As I approached the turned to me, we both broke out laughing. He managed to choke out, 'This is nuts'. Shortly after that all the handguns got sold. Good luck guys.
 
Thanks for all the responses guys! But unless something changes in the future, the only competition I will be in is with myself. @JEFFPPC, when I read your post it hit home. While I don’t think I am OCD, I am anal. At least on the things I am passionate about. I spent 42 years as a machinist and later an engineer. The equipment I designed and/or built had to be right or someone would get hurt. But different than your friend, I don’t give up. I might die trying for that one ragged hole, but promise you, I will have enjoyed the challenge! Danny
 
For me, I do a fair bit of range shooting with my carry pistols.
My 45ACP pistols I shoot 185gr bullets. Mostly with Ramshot Silhouette. But also some Red Dot & Green Dot.

I'm one of the strange ones that has JHP & LSWC in the same magazine.

So with these requirements, reliable cycling, enough velocity for reliable expansion, but low enough velocity to shoot lead.

I do separate load development for lead and jacketed. Usually 5 rounds at different powder charges.
Using most accurate. Then run over the chrono looking for between 900-950fps usually. A little faster is ok, as long as the accuracy is there.
 
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