Little 22 cal...22-38 Special anyone?

[Ramblerman]

Ok...Planning a light little single shot and having some 223 case-based reamers and some machine tools, I was toying with the idea of jamming a 221 Furball reamer into a .224 barrel fairly short and trying to get a 38 Special case to work and just doing something different-to-me. Been talking @epc308 for some of his sage advice up to now.

Knowing the dimensions are close, but not perfect, I tried forming some cases to see what dimensions would yield after some pretty aggressive forming operations.

Long story short, the brass flows down towards the rim and makes the case about a .0015" fatter than it was previously as once fired 38 Special brass, which is already at the limit the reamer can cut at that depth.

As this was just an academic idea and to test feasibility, my will and stubbornness now want to make it happen, even though it will apparently require more than currently invested time and money.

Question is, anyone here mess with this combo at all? I know a custom reamer and dies are the easy, long lead time, and expensive option. I like trying new stuff with the resources I have at hand.

Pics shows a rough formed 221-38 Special and a 221-357.

Let me know. Semper Fi. Kevin

 

[Kalitrazescapee]

You can get forming dies to use 32-20 brass to .218bee from buffalo arms..chamber for a mashburn.

 

[Ramblerman]

You can get forming dies to use 32-20 brass to .218bee from buffalo arms..chamber for a mashburn.

Thanks, but not interested in that, this project is 38 Special or 357 Mag brass related... and 32-20 brass unobtanium. I had to use 7.62 Nagant brass recently to make 310 Cadet brass for my 32-20 marked Martini Cadets.

 

[SEM]

I make 221 FB rimmed form 360 DW brass I do body size with a 223 die first when I get stubborn brass I use a 223 SB die. Maybe after you get to tis point try using a 38-357 FL die, Just a thought,

 

[Ramblerman]

I make 221 FB rimmed form 360 DW brass I do body size with a 223 die first when I get stubborn brass I use a 223 SB die. Maybe after you get to tis point try using a 38-357 FL die, Just a thought,

Ohhh, very interesting, I'll look into that, thanks for the info!

 

[357Mag]

Ok...Planning a light little single shot and having some 223 case-based reamers and some machine tools, I was toying with the idea of jamming a 221 Furball reamer into a .224 barrel fairly short and trying to get a 38 Special case to work and just doing something different-to-me. Been talking @epc308 for some of his sage advice up to now.

Knowing the dimensions are close, but not perfect, I tried forming some cases to see what dimensions would yield after some pretty aggressive forming operations.

Long story short, the brass flows down towards the rim and makes the case about a .0015" fatter than it was previously as once fired 38 Special brass, which is already at the limit the reamer can cut at that depth.

As this was just an academic idea and to test feasibility, my will and stubbornness now want to make it happen, even though it will apparently require more than currently invested time and money.

Question is, anyone here mess with this combo at all? I know a custom reamer and dies are the easy, long lead time, and expensive option. I like trying new stuff with the resources I have at hand.

Pics shows a rough formed 221-38 Special and a 221-357.

Let me know. Semper Fi. Kevin

Ramblerman -

Howdy !

If you can, take a look @ reamer' prints/specs @ the 4D reamer rental website
4drentals.com

Select the remers tab

Select Pistol reamers

* Take a look @ the . 22TCM

The major case diameters for the .22TCM are very close to what you are looking for.

Perhaps you could use a .22 TCM bullet seater die w/ it's internals removed; as the case forming die ? Seater dies are machined to not size the case body, but might size the body just fine for your application...dependent on how liberal they set up case clearances for ?

The .22TCM is longer in it's base-to-shoulder dimension; than the same b-s dimensions on .38Spl; so...you shouldn't be smashing any case' rims.

Note: .22 TCM shoulder diam ( reamer ) is .010" larger than .360" diam for the .221 Fireball, .222; etc.

One different thought about the shoulder & neck reaming:
Do it as a its own, separate operation ? Here, you'd use some existing .22CF ( probably rifle ) reamer; and only run it in as deep as needed to cut the final shoulder diam you want.

Just thinkin'.......


With regards,
357Mag

 

[Evan]

I modeled the 22-38special in GRT a short while back because it seems like you and I are frequently on very similar wavelengths, Kevin! I can go review it tomorrow because I recall it putting me in an awkward place, capacity wise, for good powder burn with what I have available on my shelf.

 

[357Mag]

Ohhh, very interesting, I'll look into that, thanks for the info!

Ramblerman -

Forgot to mention.....

If using a .22 TCM die, you could grind the die short(er) to allow use in forming your notional wildcat.

Cut the straight case wall section chamber w/ a .38spl reamer run-in short, the n cut the shoulder & neck w/ a .22 CF rifle reamer as a separate operation ?
You could pick the candidate .22CF reamer bases on neck lg and shoulder angle.
Such candidate reamers would probably feature shoulder diam of .400"+ .
Again... you'd only,run the reamer in until the tapered shoulder's diam equals the diam you want.


REGARDS,
357Mag

 

[JohnW...ski]

How about a .14/9mm or a .14/45ACP?

But seriously, A S&W model 53 is chambered for .22 Jet, a .357 Mag necked to .22. Then there is the .22 Super Jet with a sharper shoulder angle, probably very similar to a .22 Ackley Improved Jet.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Try resizing the 38 before necking it down.

Frank

 

[JSH]

Kevin, this is nothing new. Seen it done 20+ years ago with several TC’s.
I have some 256 dies and a form die if ya need to borrow them.
FYI virgin brass will keep frustration levels to a minimum. You can use fired cases fooling around to see what works but for the long haul, virgin is the way to go.

I see sooo many people start projects such as this, devote a lot of time,$ and effort, then cheap out on brass. I myself am guilty and “got the T shirt”.

Ya want PITA, try a 44 mag to 22

 

[mike mccormick]

Ya know......they call that a 22 Jet. 357 case down to 22.

 

[drewh]

I had a 20 TCM barrel on a single shot rifle. It was lots of fun, but I came up with an idea to use a CZ as a repeater, I wanted to use the single shot as a different cartridge. I changed it before I played with it too much. The rifle is being barreled now, and uses modded hornet magazines. That is the far left case in my pic, far right is a 20 Vartarg for comparison.

 

[Gabe22BR]

Few I’ve made- all 22cal

 

[Kalitrazescapee]

Thanks, but not interested in that, this project is 38 Special or 357 Mag brass related... and 32-20 brass unobtanium. I had to use 7.62 Nagant brass recently to make 310 Cadet brass for my 32-20 marked Martini Cadets.

I guess I didn't realize I'm antiqueessss

 

[Ramblerman]

Ramblerman -

Howdy !

If you can, take a look @ reamer' prints/specs @ the 4D reamer rental website
4drentals.com

Select the remers tab

Select Pistol reamers

* Take a look @ the . 22TCM

The major case diameters for the .22TCM are very close to what you are looking for.

Perhaps you could use a .22 TCM bullet seater die w/ it's internals removed; as the case forming die ? Seater dies are machined to not size the case body, but might size the body just fine for your application...dependent on how liberal they set up case clearances for ?

The .22TCM is longer in it's base-to-shoulder dimension; than the same b-s dimensions on .38Spl; so...you shouldn't be smashing any case' rims.

Note: .22 TCM shoulder diam ( reamer ) is .010" larger than .360" diam for the .221 Fireball, .222; etc.

One different thought about the shoulder & neck reaming:
Do it as a its own, separate operation ? Here, you'd use some existing .22CF ( probably rifle ) reamer; and only run it in as deep as needed to cut the final shoulder diam you want.

Just thinkin'.......


With regards,
357Mag

Thanks, good info.

 

[Ramblerman]

Few I’ve made- all 22calView attachment 1515486

Nice! Love the 32ACP and 38 Special

 

[Ramblerman]

Kevin, this is nothing new. Seen it done 20+ years ago with several TC’s.
I have some 256 dies and a form die if ya need to borrow them.
FYI virgin brass will keep frustration levels to a minimum. You can use fired cases fooling around to see what works but for the long haul, virgin is the way to go.

I see sooo many people start projects such as this, devote a lot of time,$ and effort, then cheap out on brass. I myself am guilty and “got the T shirt”.

Ya want PITA, try a 44 mag to 22

Hahah, yeah Jeff, I know it's not knew. I was bored as a kid and necked a bunch of 38 Specials down to various calibers with some universal neck dies we got from a dying uncle.

Just a curiosity to see if tolerances would mesh...and really hoping for larger than yield tolerances in a place or two. But so far, as they say "we're not pullin' it off with this equipment ". Hahaha

 

[Ramblerman]

I modeled the 22-38special in GRT a short while back because it seems like you and I are frequently on very similar wavelengths, Kevin! I can go review it tomorrow because I recall it putting me in an awkward place, capacity wise, for good powder burn with what I have available on my shelf.

Hahaha, awesome, good to hear from you sir. It's the "Evan and Kevin Show".

 

[Ramblerman]

I make 221 FB rimmed form 360 DW brass I do body size with a 223 die first when I get stubborn brass I use a 223 SB die. Maybe after you get to tis point try using a 38-357 FL die, Just a thought

Ya know......they call that a 22 Jet. 357 case down to 22.

You have seen one, right? The 22 Jet is the "Cousin Eddie" of centerfires. Hahaha