limiting bullet weight for FTR competitions

[UKFTR.SHOOTER]

I'm a uk FTR shooter, recently there has been alot of rumours etc regarding a proposed limit to the bullet weight in FTR competitions. Why do some people think this is necessary? i admit that i do shoot 210gr bullets in my rifle, and have for the last 4 years.
The proposers of this limit seem to think that the heavy bullets give you an unfair advantage, if that is the case why don't they shoot a heavy bullet themselves. Is it because they stick to old dogma form Target rifle sticking to a 155 bullet, I'm not sure.
But i for one oppose any such limit, i have spent nearly a year fine tuning my load and my rifle for the 210's. please express your views so we stop this proposal in its track. Thanks for your time.

 

[Elwood]

Go to page two where there's about 10-15 pages on the subject, I think the weight cap limit is pretty much dead in the water.

 

[Hombre0321]

Never really was a proposal as such. There was a guy who started several polls on different sites asking for opinions and why and why not this was a good or bad idea. This never really went any where as all of the polls I saw the idea of mandating the light weight bullet was shot down on a couple of these informal polls by 50 to 65%.

I believe the reason this even came up if the erroneous idea that this bullet change will bring new shooters to the game. I personally believe that when you take an objective look at this idea it is just a bad idea all the way around and would do nothing for the sport but a lot against FTR. However everyone is entitled to there opinion and idea's. Be a sad world if we all agreed on every thing...

Roland

 

[UKFTR.SHOOTER]

THANKS FOR THE PROMPT REPLY, I HAVE READ THE OTHER THREADS REGARDING THE WEIGHT ISSUE. HERE IN THE UK IT SEEMS TO RAISE ITS HEAD EVERY COUPLE OF MONTHS, I RAISED THE SUBJECT BECAUSE OF THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS TO HELD I AUGUST WHERE ANY NEW RULES WOULD BE VOTED UPON. THANKS FOR THE I INFORMATION.

 

[XTR]

Someone shoot this zombie thread in the head already! There is no proposal. Read the thread people. This is a yr old thread that should have been dead last yr.

There was a guy who started several polls on different sites asking for opinions

That "guy" is the captain of the US-FTR tram.

 

[Hombre0321]

Someone shoot this zombie thread in the head already! There is no proposal. Read the thread people. This is a yr old thread that should have been dead last yr.

There was a guy who started several polls on different sites asking for opinions

That "guy" is the captain of the US-FTR tram.

OK XTR, And the purpose of that last sentence is? Is that supposed to impress in some way? I'm certainly not impressed by who came up with the idea, as far as I am concerned he is just another "GUY" who shoots.

RS

 

[XTR]

Someone shoot this zombie thread in the head already! There is no proposal. Read the thread people. This is a yr old thread that should have been dead last yr.

There was a guy who started several polls on different sites asking for opinions

That "guy" is the captain of the US-FTR tram.

OK XTR, And the purpose of that last sentence is? Is that supposed to impress in some way? I'm certainly not impressed by who came up with the idea, as far as I am concerned he is just another "GUY" who shoots.

RS

Let me make the point a bit more concise then. Most of the stuff you read online is just static, it's a free and open forum where people prove every day you don't have to be smart to get behind a keyboard, but occasionally you read something that has some meat. In this case my comment was to highlight that it is a guy who due to his position has access to propose rule changes and whether or not it impresses you or me or my neighbor his proposal would carry a lot more weight than just just another "GUY" who shoots.

To elaborate...

Did you notice that the F class championship doesn't have a 600 yard match any more? Nobody asked anyone, it was just announced that it was that way when the schedule for Raton came out last yr, and there were more than a few unhappy shooters who were never asked.

I believe that in some way Darrell put this question out publicly due to more than a little backlash from he national championship format change (I may be wrong but I seem to recall reading some commentary to that effect last yr)

Better now?

 

[mysticplayer]

As a refresh:

156gr was the orig weights used in TR which became FTR when Mr. F came up with this rather good idea. There are those who feel going back to its roots is a good thing.

Lower recoil can aid in allowing younger, smaller statured shooters into the sport. Also those who may not enjoy getting rattled for a few hundred rds. Less pain, possibly more shooters.

Lower cost - lighter bullets cost less. Reduce (small) cost of participation/shooting.

More "Level" playing field - limit the tech, causes the skill factor to increase. Again, back to the TR roots.

Limit the pressures - some loads are way over SAAMI spec even for magnum chamberings. Fear is a Kaboom on the line.

Monitor the chambers so they are within SAAMI specs - ie no super long throats for the heavies.

These are some of the points I have taken from these past threads. Good, bad, indifferent....

YMMV.

Jerry

 

[Hombre0321]

Someone shoot this zombie thread in the head already! There is no proposal. Read the thread people. This is a yr old thread that should have been dead last yr.

There was a guy who started several polls on different sites asking for opinions

That "guy" is the captain of the US-FTR tram.

OK XTR, And the purpose of that last sentence is? Is that supposed to impress in some way? I'm certainly not impressed by who came up with the idea, as far as I am concerned he is just another "GUY" who shoots.

RS

Let me make the point a bit more concise then. Most of the stuff you read online is just static, it's a free and open forum where people prove every day you don't have to be smart to get behind a keyboard, but occasionally you read something that has some meat. In this case my comment was to highlight that it is a guy who due to his position has access to propose rule changes and whether or not it impresses you or me or my neighbor his proposal would carry a lot more weight than just just another "GUY" who shoots.

To elaborate...

Did you notice that the F class championship doesn't have a 600 yard match any more? Nobody asked anyone, it was just announced that it was that way when the schedule for Raton came out last yr, and there were more than a few unhappy shooters who were never asked.

I believe that in some way Darrell put this question out publicly due to more than a little backlash from he national championship format change (I may be wrong but I seem to recall reading some commentary to that effect last yr)

Better now?

Its not a matter of "Better Now" but I am always up for a good discussion.

His position does not provide him access to propose anything any more than any shooter. That is the way it should be, we as shooters are not "Ruled" by an elite class were position is needed to make a proposal's. The fact that you say and maybe think that his position "Grants" him certain powers is probably more of a problem for us all than we realize.

I also have no problem what so ever with him making the inquiry's he did into a bullet cap. I applaud his choice to do that in a public way with the polls he started on several sites. I do believe that the cap itself is an ill advised idea and "IF" put into effect distracts from F/TR much more so that anything it would ever add. His looking for other opinions was a good thing, I do notice that he did the inquiry on these public boards and asked those questions from us the unwashed public shooters, and not just from those in exalted positions.

RS

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Why would any competitor in any sport want to have rules dictate an even keel when they had the option to turn their sport into an equipment race? It just goes against human nature

 

[mgx1138]

FTR limits the weight of the rifle... that's enough. There is a limit to how much heavier bullets can help, especially in a weight limited rifle. The fewest rules necessary is the way to go IMHO.

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

If you can't run with the big dogs, Don't get off the porch!!!

The only people that want to put limits are the people that can't make anything else work. But the one at the limit that are capping at.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

For God's sakes don't limit the game to 155's. You wouldn't want the hardcore Palma shooters in this country to dominate F-TR.

 

[XTR]

For God's sakes don't limit the game to 155's. You wouldn't want the hardcore Palma shooters in this country to dominate F-TR.

Really? Your post is self contradictory, You really think "hardcore Palma shooters" are going to skip the Palma match and shoot F-Class? That's pretty light weight and not very "Hard Core."

I'll take it from that post that you don't really shoot F-Class either. Trust me on this, one, it's not the bullet. Perhaps if some of the best Palma shooters in the country gave up the sling and coat for a bipod and a rear bag they would be highly competitive in F class. The skills are similar in many ways, if you can read wind you can do either.

 

[Mudcat]

Perhaps if some of the best Palma shooters in the country gave up the sling and coat for a bipod and a rear bag they would be highly competitive in F class. The skills are similar in many ways, if you can read wind you can do either.

Several have and they have acquitted themselves quite well. As for the 2nd part of the last sentence, just because you can "read wind" doesnt mean you can pick up a sling/irons rifle and be highly competitive.

 

[XTR]

... just because you can "read wind" doesnt mean you can pick up a sling/irons rifle and be highly competitive.

I agree, my statement should have been clearer, referring to sling shooters coming to F class and not the other way around. I'm pretty much a pure F'er but I do recognize that.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Trust me on this, one, it's not the bullet.

Ummm....then riddle me this. Why do people want to desperately shoot the high-BC bullets?

 

[Mudcat]

Trust me on this, one, it's not the bullet.

Ummm....then riddle me this. Why do people want to desperately shoot the high-BC bullets?

And the big bullets ?

 

[XTR]

They want to shoot heavy bullet because they want better scores, of course.

Why do people shoot open?
Why do sling shooters shoot 7RSAUMs in any?
Why doesn't US Palma have a weight cap on bullets? Oh yea, there is that one isn't there. Unless you shoot Full Bore there are no weight limits. (US Palma Rifle, Section 3.3.1 of the NRA regulations, Most Palma guys I know run 185s, except Randy who runs a 223 with Berger 90s, with great success I might add)

There is no doubt that bullets can make some difference, but no bullet currently loaded in an F-TR rifle will hold the 10-ring on an F class target on a 1 MPH shift if you hold center. Personally I would be fine with a 201 limit, but that's another rule and something else to have to enforce and in the end I don't think it's makes any difference so let people load what ever they want to shoot. Shooting heavies comes at a price, recoil. The 18 lb limit ensures that, don't believe me, get behind my rifle pushing 215s or 230s and see the difference. I shot an F-Class palma match clean at 800 and 900 last week shooting 185s (9x at 800, 6x at 900). I'm not positive it would have happened with the heavies.

It's just more rules we don't need or want. You shoot your way and leave us to shoot ours, I get the impression that you don't shoot F class anyway so why do you care?

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Ha! At any rate, thanks for letting me know that wind-reading is not your skill-set.

The one nice thing about Int'l Palma (and it would benefit F-TR) is that there is this little thing called "parity" that some folks actually appreciate. That game is a matter of who can read/strategize the conditions on the range and it is not a game of equipment.

I recognize that there are some folks that want every possible crutch to get the MA or HM card they could never get while shooting with a sling. But, there are others that find "direct" head-to-head competition against their peers to be far more rewarding.