Light weight 1000 yard "tactical" rifle with a 18" barrel?

[thefitter]

If you wanted a light weight bolt action tactical rifle capable of keeping a bullet supersonic at 1000 yards from a 18" barrel how would you design it? I do not want a barrel burner or have to push pressures too high.

I'm kind of starting with the Berger 7mm 180 Grain Match Hybrid Target bullet. And I'm leaning towards 7mm SAUM. 2500 FPS keeps me supersonic at 1000 yards. Thats not hard to do with the 7mm SAUM from a 18" barrel.

I've just been tinkering with JBM Ballistics and QuickLoad, exploring possibilities.

Any other ideas?

Thanks

 

[Scott Harris]

What do you mean by tactical? Are you shooting matches? I'm guessing not ..... but maybe should go to some and be enlightened by what others are using. Sure you can use an 18" barrel on steel plates out to 1K. But if you are competing with anyone, your barrel will start growing longer

 

[thefitter]

What do you mean by tactical? Are you shooting matches? I'm guessing not ..... but maybe should go to some and be enlightened by what others are using. Sure you can use an 18" barrel on steel plates out to 1K. But if you are competing with anyone, your barrel will start growing longer

Why? Are you saying barrel length = accuracy?

 

[brian427cobra]

Barrel length at all the tactical matches I have shot and ROed is more like 24-28 inches, winners shoot 6mm or 6.5mm something, a short barrel bolt action has its place, but not at a Precision Rifle(Sniper) Match.

 

[fr3db3ar]

What do you mean by tactical? Are you shooting matches? I'm guessing not ..... but maybe should go to some and be enlightened by what others are using. Sure you can use an 18" barrel on steel plates out to 1K. But if you are competing with anyone, your barrel will start growing longer

Why? Are you saying barrel length = accuracy?

I believe it's more about velocity.

 

[M14AMU]

I think you're swallowing the current 'kool-aid'!!

 

[its only light]

I've been thinking of building something real quick like this, just because this isn't what people are winning comps with doesn't mean you couldn't. I'm starting to think way too much credit is being given to the rifles and the shooters are just an after thought. The main requirement is that the bullet stay supersonic to your desired distance, if you can do that then you got a chance. The OP didn't say anything about competing. I like the idea of your 7 saum and personally I think that would be a great basis for a compact rig that can still pack some punch. If this will be your only rifle I would think about more barrel but I'm guessing you have other stuff for that. Let us know what you decide to do. Some of us would like to hear your reports!

 

[its only light]

One more thought, if velocity is an issue, maybe give the 162 amax a try. You could get a little more velocity and the bc is still around .625.

 

[Rustystud]

It has been my experience barrels less than 26" and bullets with a BC less than .540 and velocity less than 2800 fps have a difficult time staying super sonic at a 1000 yds.

Example 155 gr 308 needs to be running 3000 fps or better
168 gr needs to be running 2900 fps or better
175 gr needs to be running 2800 fps or better
180 gr needs to be running 2750 fps or better
185 gr needs to be running 2700 fps or better
200 gr needs to be running 2600 fps or better
These are not absolutes but pretty close, at least in the ball park.
If you can attain these velocities with an 18" barrel I would say it may be doable.
I recently rebuilt a 20" LEO rifle with a 26" AMU contour barrel. The shooter found his new barrel did not give any substantial increase in accuracy until beyond 200 yards. Then as the distance grew the longerr barrel accuracy grew exponentially.

One has to weigh the advantages and disadvantages ie: weight vs added velocity.

Nat Lambeth

 

[Ing. Michael W. Mayerl]

If you wanted a light weight bolt action tactical rifle capable of keeping a bullet supersonic at 1000 yards from a 18" barrel how would you design it? I do not want a barrel burner or have to push pressures too high.

6,5x47 + Vitha N140 + Lapua Scenar 123grain.

Supersonic up to 1300 yards from a 18" barrel and the powder burn perfekt in the 18" barrel.

 

[thefitter]

I've been thinking of building something real quick like this, just because this isn't what people are winning comps with doesn't mean you couldn't. I'm starting to think way too much credit is being given to the rifles and the shooters are just an after thought. The main requirement is that the bullet stay supersonic to your desired distance, if you can do that then you got a chance. The OP didn't say anything about competing. I like the idea of your 7 saum and personally I think that would be a great basis for a compact rig that can still pack some punch. If this will be your only rifle I would think about more barrel but I'm guessing you have other stuff for that. Let us know what you decide to do. Some of us would like to hear your reports!

Right. I thought it would be fun to build a rifle that was light, compact and could deliver a bullet at supersonic speeds- maintaining stability and accuracy to 1000 yards, but also a heavy enough bullet to deliver good terminal ballistics when it got there.

 

[thefitter]

It has been my experience barrels less than 26" and bullets with a BC less than .540 and velocity less than 2800 fps have a difficult time staying super sonic at a 1000 yds.

Example 155 gr 308 needs to be running 3000 fps or better
168 gr needs to be running 2900 fps or better
175 gr needs to be running 2800 fps or better
180 gr needs to be running 2750 fps or better
185 gr needs to be running 2700 fps or better
200 gr needs to be running 2600 fps or better
These are not absolutes but pretty close, at least in the ball park.
If you can attain these velocities with an 18" barrel I would say it may be doable.
I recently rebuilt a 20" LEO rifle with a 26" AMU contour barrel. The shooter found his new barrel did not give any substantial increase in accuracy until beyond 200 yards. Then as the distance grew the longerr barrel accuracy grew exponentially.

One has to weigh the advantages and disadvantages ie: weight vs added velocity.

Nat Lambeth

The Berger 7mm 180 gr Match Hybrid Target has a G1 BC of 0.674. JMB Ballistics calculates that I only need 2500 fps to still be supersonic at 1000 yards. I can do that with a 18" barrel no problem.

I'm hoping that as long as I stay supersonic at 1000 yards my accuracy will be good. Especially with a flat shooting 7mm bullet that weighs 180gr.

Thoughts?

 

[thefitter]

One more thought, if velocity is an issue, maybe give the 162 amax a try. You could get a little more velocity and the bc is still around .625.

I ran some numbers on it, I would need 2600 fps to stay super sonic at 1000. I would give up 100 fpe on target and I have much fewer load options to use. I think the Berger is the ticket but thanks for the thought.

 

[its only light]

No problem, some of that barrel twist/stability stuff is a little beyond me. I really like the direction you are going with this and am curious to see how it turns out if you do decide to do it. I've been a fan of the saum for quite awhile, I actually was going to build a 7mm saum but ended up just doing the 284 win for the availability of brass. Between the saum and wsm is there much of a difference in availability of components? Just seems that these two rounds are so close to each other that maybe that should be a deciding factor. Or is there other reasons you like the saum?

 

[thefitter]

No problem, some of that barrel twist/stability stuff is a little beyond me. I really like the direction you are going with this and am curious to see how it turns out if you do decide to do it. I've been a fan of the saum for quite awhile, I actually was going to build a 7mm saum but ended up just doing the 284 win for the availability of brass. Between the saum and wsm is there much of a difference in availability of components? Just seems that these two rounds are so close to each other that maybe that should be a deciding factor. Or is there other reasons you like the saum?

I can get the 2500fps I need for that bullet easier and at lower pressures in the saum. I picked the bullet and worked backwards. I'm not sold on it yet, the saum brass is expensive. Almost as much as my .338 LM brass.

 

[holstil]

I would go with the 284 shehane and 168vld. and cut the barrel as short as I needed to in order to get what I want for speed.

My gears are turnin again.
Snap, am I the only one holding my breath for a 150 class hybrid for my 7-08's? C'mon Berger!!
Who is a reasonable bullet die maker?

Jim

 

[Topstrap]

When we first started experimenting with our 15" 7-08 barrel on an XP100 at the local 1000 yard steel plate matches we did a lot of reading and comparing bullets. We knew we couldn't get the velocity to make the heavier bullets work and a buddy stumbled onto the 140 gr Berger VLDs and they worked great. We were getting 2700fps plus a few with them using 44gr of IMR4064. Everyone overlooks that bullet as an option in shorter barrels with lower velocity but it shot great to 1000 yards.

If you're not hunting with that new gun and need the the heavier bullet and want an accurate lightweight "tactical" gun I think one of the 6.5mm is by far the best way to go if you're only shooting 1000 yards with it.

Regards,

Topstrap