Leveling the A&D FX-120i

[6Creed73]

I just got the A&D FX-120i because I'm planning on adding either an Auto trickler V4 or the new Ingenuity Precision dumper/trickler coming out soon to my arsenal.

I've read that the scale really needs to be level for the V4 to work properly. I leveled it by getting the bullseye bubble in the middle as stated in the directions and it looked off to me. So I put another level on it and adjusted the feet until it was level. As you can see from the pic, the built in bullseye bubble is way off when the level I put across the platen shows level. My level shows good side to side and front to back and I tend to believe it over the on built in bubble.

For those who own this scale, is it typical for this built in bubble to be off? Which would you trust, the external level or the built in bubble?

 

[dthomas]

I never checked mine, just trusted the built in level. Guess I'll have to check and see if they are different.

 

[Kyle Schultz]

The A&D does NOT have to be perfectly level for the AT V4 to work properly. In fact, Adam will advise tilting the scale down in order to get the desired flow rate from the dispenser. That’s the purpose of the calibration step.

 

[GunzRUs]

Use the bubble on the unit Sir. If you were to check all the tolerances on the platen and the base of the scale balance between 2 scales I'm 99% positive you wouldn't find 2 exactly the same and pretty sure the manufacturer would have calibrated each scale to match everything up. The FX120 is a top of the line scale. Maybe your $2.00 level is wrong and not the $550.00 scale? I've been using my FX120 for years using the bubble and have never doubted it for a minute. Just my .02 worth.

 

[G Liles]

Use the bubble on the unit Sir. If you were to check all the tolerances on the platen and the base of the scale balance between 2 scales I'm 99% positive you wouldn't find 2 exactly the same and pretty sure the manufacturer would have calibrated each scale to match everything up. The FX120 is a top of the line scale. Maybe your $2.00 level is wrong and not the $550.00 scale? I've been using my FX120 for years using the bubble and have never doubted it for a minute. Just my .02 worth.

I trust the level on the scale and see no reason not to.

 

[6Creed73]

Use the bubble on the unit Sir. If you were to check all the tolerances on the platen and the base of the scale balance between 2 scales I'm 99% positive you wouldn't find 2 exactly the same and pretty sure the manufacturer would have calibrated each scale to match everything up. The FX120 is a top of the line scale. Maybe your $2.00 level is wrong and not the $550.00 scale? I've been using my FX120 for years using the bubble and have never doubted it for a minute. Just my .02 worth.

Thanks for the input...But the problem with that is using the bubble on the unit I could even see with the naked eye that it wasn't level. I can verify my $2.00 level with other stuff around the house that I know to be level.

Either way, I'm not going to worry about it. @Kyle Schultz says it doesn't have to be perfectly level for the V4 to work, so I'll just go with it until there is an issue. I think it was a video from F-class John where he mentioned it needs to be level. I just loaded up 20 rounds and double checked the charges with my other scale, which I trust immensely, and the A&D is accurate.

 

[6Creed73]

The A&D does NOT have to be perfectly level for the AT V4 to work properly. In fact, Adam will advise tilting the scale down in order to get the desired flow rate from the dispenser. That’s the purpose of the calibration step.

Thank you for verifying this. I'm going to just run with it and when I setup the V4 I'll see if it's good and worry about it then.

 

[Murray Brook]

Maybe you should get in touch with A&D and see what they have to say about this.

 

[Murray Brook]

As @Kyle Schultz posted maybe there needs to be a slight tilt and the bubble does this. If you get in touch with A&D please let us know what they say.

 

[Ned Ludd]

How many pieces of the frame/housing, internal parts, balance pan, etc., lie between where the two bubble levels are actually positioned and in contact with the unit? Are they really even measuring how level the same object is? I doubt it. I would tend to trust the level on the unit more than an external level placed on the balance pan, which is not even tightly attached to the unit (i.e. removable). All the the external balance result suggests (IMO) is that the edges of the balance pan are not quite level. While it is certainly possible that the buuble level in the unit could be defective, it is the internal mechanism of the balance that needs to be reasonable level, not necessarily the the edges of the balance pan. Personally, I'd contact the manufacturer, run this test result by them, and then go with whatever they tell you. However, if you have a set of calibration weights, you could also try to determine whether the measured weight of a calibration weight changes depending on which bubble level was "centered".

 

[ronemus]

Whatever level you choose to use, as long as the scale is calibrated at the same position your measurements will be accurate - maintain that same "level" and you're GTG. I use the built-in level because the pan isn't easy to access with the V3 installed.

 

[6Creed73]

How many pieces of the frame/housing, internal parts, balance pan, etc., lie between where the two bubble levels are actually positioned and in contact with the unit? Are they really even measuring how level the same object is? I doubt it. I would tend to trust the level on the unit more than an external level placed on the balance pan, which is not even tightly attached to the unit (i.e. removable). All the the external balance result suggests (IMO) is that the edges of the balance pan are not quite level. While it is certainly possible that the buuble level in the unit could be defective, it is the internal mechanism of the balance that needs to be reasonable level, not necessarily the the edges of the balance pan. Personally, I'd contact the manufacturer, run this test result by them, and then go with whatever they tell you. However, if you have a set of calibration weights, you could also try to determine whether the measured weight of a calibration weight changes depending on which bubble level was "centered".

I did check it with the external level at different places...the platen, with platen removed, the raised plastic part of the housing...and they all read the same. But you make a good point about the internal mechanism of the balance is what should be level, and not necessarily the housing. I'm an over-thinker, I can't help it, lol. I think it's all good. The scale is accurate and consistent. It's going to make a great addition to my bench, especially when I get the V4.

 

[bugman]

Lift off the patten, and note that it is hardly stationary in the way it rests on the scale.
Now, try your level on the housing for the patten.....it will probably show that the patten was canted.

 

[6Creed73]

Lift off the patten, and note how it is far from stationary in the way it reads on the scale.
Now, try your level on the housing for the patten.....it will probably show that the patten was canted.

See my previous comment...that is how I actually checked it originally. I then placed the level back on for the picture and in that case the platen was on. Both showed level. I also checked it on the plastic housing at the front.

 

[6Creed73]

I never checked mine, just trusted the built in level. Guess I'll have to check and see if they are different.

I wouldn't have double checked it myself either, except I could see with the naked eye that it was off. I've never checked my other scale or FA Intellidropper, I just used the the built in bubble with those.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Sameness.
That's what matters. If the bubble is OFF by 1 degree to the left, or right, back or forward, cal it there, use it there, come back to it the next time.
Calibrating to a sensitive bubble level is about the same as calibrating to YOUR local gravity. Change anything, recalibrate.

 

[6Creed73]

Sameness.
That's what matters. If the bubble is OFF by 1 degree to the left, or right, back or forward, cal it there, use it there, come back to it the next time.

Yeah, I get that and agree. My main concern was making sure there wasn't going to be an issue with the V4 running properly sitting on top of it. I was thinking the unit needed to be precisely level for the V4 to function properly. Sounds like that is not the case.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I did check it with the external level at different places...the platen, with platen removed, the raised plastic part of the housing...and they all read the same. But you make a good point about the internal mechanism of the balance is what should be level, and not necessarily the housing.

Another point I would make about bubble levels is that they are not all made equally. Next time you're at the hardware store, see if they have a hook or peg with several of the exact same level. Set them next to one another on the floor or some flat surface and it is not unlikely you will see one or two where the bubble position differs noticeably from the rest. My suspicion is that many of the bubble levels we typically encounter in hardware stores are very cheaply made. I am not familiar with the specific bubble level you showed in the picture above (i.e. it could be a very good one), but I found out the hard way that several relatively inexpensive bubble levels I had purchased over the years did not always agree with one another when used for leveling a rifle scope. In my several decades experience using various high end analytical balances in the laboratory, although it is certainly desirable to keep the balance leveled as best as possible, that does not mean the balance measurement will be completely inaccurate if the bubble is slightly off. I am not implying that it is ok to have the bubble canted all the way to one side of the viewing window, meaning the balance is way out of level. But the bubble doesn't have to be exactly in the center of the circle for the balance to function.

 

[6Creed73]

Thanks for the input, everyone. As always this forum never disappoints. I'm going to leave it as-is and when the V4 gets here, I'll see how it goes. My OCD will just have to get over looking at the built in bubble being way off

 

[47WillysGuy]

I just got the A&D FX-120i because I'm planning on adding either an Auto trickler V4 or the new Ingenuity Precision dumper/trickler coming out soon to my arsenal.

I've read that the scale really needs to be level for the V4 to work properly. I leveled it by getting the bullseye bubble in the middle as stated in the directions and it looked off to me. So I put another level on it and adjusted the feet until it was level. As you can see from the pic, the built in bullseye bubble is way off when the level I put across the platen shows level. My level shows good side to side and front to back and I tend to believe it over the on built in bubble.

For those who own this scale, is it typical for this built in bubble to be off? Which would you trust, the external level or the built in bubble?

FYI: My A&D 300 scale, with a centered internal bubble, is perfect right to left. It's the front to back that is off. Maybe they're engineered to be a half bubble off plumb. I don't see a problem here. Good luck.