Leupold fixed 12X40 AO or Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50 PA?

[jsmith8918]

I have a very accurate AR in .223 Wylde which is currently topped with an old (very old, perhaps mid '70s?) Leupold fixed 12X40mm (one-inch tube) with adjustable objective (OA). It has been upgraded with a mil dot reticle and targets knobs (MOA adjustments). I've been using it happily. But then along comes a friend who offers me an opportunity to trade my old Leupold for his basically brand new Vortex Viper VPR-M-06MD 6.5-20x50 PA with mil dot reticle and MOA adjustments. I'm hoping for some suggestions, advice, recommendations from the seasoned and knowledgeable contributors here as to which would be the better scope for my application. I'm shooting prone off of a bipod and punching paper (and clays and golf balls and other assorted targets) at long distances (>700+ yards with 80-grainers loaded one at a time). I went to a fixed power because my previous scope (Zeiss Conquest) shifted impact with shift in magnification. My first priority, then, in choosing between these two is I cannot tolerate a variable that shifts impact when changing magnification! I would love to upgrade to the Vortex's higher magnification (my main reason for considering this trade), 30mm tube (although it really doesn't provide much more elevation: 68 moa actual vs. 55 actual), and the similar customer support. So with this scenario in mind, which scope would you think would be the better choice? Which one of these two would you choose for this application?

 

[jonbearman]

I would call vortex and ask if it stays true through the power changes.

 

[pacificman]

I own both scopes you are talking about. While I have used the Leupold fixed 12 for years on my 22-250 I finally changed to the Vortex and can turn the power down to see hits on prairie dogs at the longer ranges (400+). The Leupold does have a finer cross hair. The Vortex cross hair is a bit thicker but works fine out to as far as I can shoot. Back 40 years or so many var-minters stayed away from the variable scopes because of the change in POI on target when changing power but over the years most all variable scopes are very reliable at any change in magnification. I have checked this myself and now am very satisfied with the Vortex. I am surprised that your Zeiss would have different POI at different magnification. I have several variable scopes.... Vortex, Leupold, Burris, Nikon and have not had problem with POI changes when using these scopes. Did you send it back for repair? Anyway this is my experience using these scopes. Good luck on your decision.

 

[jsmith8918]

Thank you, Gentlemen, for your suggestions and advice.

I did discover something interesting this afternoon when comparing these two scopes side by side: I discovered that the Leupold's mil dots appear to be not quite true mils between the dots. In trying to compare glass quality while looking at a distant random object, I discovered that the object spanned 9 mils in my Leupold reticle, but only 8 mils in the Vortex. I thought for sure that the problem would turn out to be with the Vortex since it's supposedly calibrated to be true mils on 14X because, after all, the Leupold is a fixed power. In measuring for accuracy of the mils in each scope, I found the Vortex to be calibrated for true mils just a tad before the "14" while, low and behold, the distance between each "mil" dot in the Leupold is actually about 12% smaller than it should be! It was actually the Vortex that was correct and the Leupold that was inaccurate!

Now if I find that the Vortex POI does not shift when I change magnification, this will be an easy decision indeed!

Now I'm thinking about sending the Leupold in for repair / correction.

I do still welcome any additional contributions to this thread for those who are considering chiming in.

 

[CSM19Z5M]

I have never had a Vortex scope but do have a number of Leupold scopes. I have not had a problem with any of the variable scopes, regardless of their product line. I'm about to buy another one, a VX3 8.5x25x50. There is no manufacturer that doesn't have a problem once in a while. Both Leupold and Vortex are great scopes. In the high end scopes it is sometimes a matter of splitting hairs or just personal preference as to which one you like best. I have been to lots of matches as well as done a lot of varmint shooting and I can tell you there are a lot of Leupold's out there. They have good factory service if you have a problem too but Vortex may also. Having said all that, I guess I don't see much of a problem with the mil gradations you talked about but if it bothers you get the Vortex. By the way, if you are really a purist when it comes to accuracy and shooting out there over 700 yds, maybe you might want to go to a good rest rather than a bipod. Might give you more accuracy for less money than a new scope.