Lets talk sand

[Sleepyhollow]

After talking with Mike Ratigan most this weekend my eyes got open on different types of sand. I know every one has different options about weight, type and bag fill. Mike had some good thoughts about certain things and I'm always open to ideas. So let's here what you guys like

 

[BoydAllen]

I like bagged play sand for front bags and rear ears and garnet for the bottom part of the back. It is easier to get locally, and a lot more affordable. Recently I split a bag with a friend and it cost about 50 cents a pound. I also like its angularity and how that stacks.

 

[F Class John]

I know from testing that there's lots of sands, plastics and fills that work for any number of situations but no matter what, I'm a believer that the front and rear bags should be different consistency. Meaning one firm and one softer. Two soft bags or two hard bags and bad things can happen. It may have actually been Ratigan years ago that was one of the people who told me that but after all kinds of testing I do agree and have followed that advice since.

 

[Sleepyhollow]

I know from testing that there's lots of sands, plastics and fills that work for any number of situations but no matter, what I'm a believer that the front and rear bags should be different consistency. Meaning one firm and one softer. Two soft bags or two hard bags and bad things can happen. I may have actually been Ratigan years ago that was one of the people who told me that but after all kinds of testing I do agree and have followed that advice since.

John that's some of what me and Mike discussed this weekend. And how an over stiff front bag and rear cause cause flyers. We talk mostly benchrest since that's what we both shoot and only sand is allowed. I love to hear others valued opinions and love to test theories.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Long range or short range Br?

 

[Sleepyhollow]

Long range or short range Br?

Short range Alex

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I use paver sand

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Of course, I could be wrong... but for FTR I use Iron Sand. The black stuff from our west coast beaches. Bag is fairly rigid and very heavy. I don't bag squeeze as I have a JoyPod X .

 

[D Coots]

I concocted my own gradation(particle size distribution). I had many different sized sieves down to 200 mesh(200 openings per inch) when I was in business. Worked great.

Found my recipe 85% #30 mesh and 15% #50 mesh. Percentages are amount passing through sieves.

Parakeet sand I tested was:

#8.....100%
#16....99%
#30....14%
#50.....1.5%

These are also percentages passing through the numbered sieves. Numbers are openings per inch.

Later
Dave

 

[Fuj]

I did a test I will need to repeat.....I shot some groups using a front
bag that Protektor made for me and filled by them with light sand.
I repeated the groups with another of Protektor's bag and filled by
them with their heavy sand. Both tests used their flat top Bumble
Bee rear bag, filled by them with heavy sand. I was testing one of
my shortened 284 wild cats with a 30" barrel.....The heavy sand gave
me more vertical but better horizontally then the soft sand. Group
sizes between the 2 bags were pretty much the same, it was the shape
that was different between the 2. I did this test just prior to a 400 yard
Deer match at Anderson Creek. The target that is used favors vertical, so
I mounted up the heavy bag......For the close in UBR type match's 100/200,
I favor the light sand, but still use the heavy sand rear bag.

I have been meaning to test crushed walnut and I mean the fine Zilla
brand stuff.

 

[BIG D]

Nice to see this topic up for discussion. I shoot f class when I can. Work the last 2 seasons has gotten the best of my time. Years ago I was shooting 3 different rifles. 6 brx, 260 Remington and 284 Winchester. I finished out the season in Wisconsin hanging in the top 3 at both mid and long range. Rolled into the winter months with confidence next year would be better. I was shooting where things finally made sense, wind calls, mirage, sun shade etc we’re making sense to me. The next year the same rifles came out with same lots of powder, primers etc. Well I roll into the first matches with confidence. By the end of the day my head was spinning and my hair was falling out. I thought maybe load wasn’t right. Went home and tested. At home my bench wouldn’t allow the front rest to sit comfortably so I was using my blue Jean pants sandbags filled with whatever sand I had laying around here. Guns all came back to the same loads as the year before. So I load up for the next matches and my head starts spinning again. I’m getting the consistency of my 12 gauge with buckshot. I struggled with one gun for a month. Parked that gun and grabbed one of the others. Only to have the same results. Grabbed third gun and struggled also. So I’m thinking there’s no way all three took a crap at the sane time. At this point I was shooting off a Caldwell fire control rest with a Edgewood front bag. The Edgewood felt “normal”. So I decided to rip the rest apart and clean/inspect every part of it. I get it cleaned up and start reassembling it and as I’m installing the bag I notice the ear tension plates have wiggle room. When I put it together the first time I could barely get the tensioner plates on the rest because the bag was so full. So I put the equivalent of 2-1/4 284 brass worth of sand back in them. Took it to the next match and won. Afterwards all 3 rifles were back to hammering like the season before. I learned that day to test off of the gear you will shoot from. Call me slow if you want. I should have noticed while shooting off the blue Jean bags bags that it was bag related. I guess live and learn.
Another mind blowing experience I witnessed was in lacrosse Wisconsin. There was a new to the range and new to f class shooter show up with a beautiful blue laminated X ring stocked, brux barreled, atlas action built 284. Top notch set up by top notch gunsmith/f class shooter from Iowa. This new guy is spanking top shooters and having a great time. Front rest was a Caldwell fire control with original front bag. As the day progressed I watch this new guy consistently hammer the 10/X ring in some switchy conditions. Halfway through match 3 of 4 he starts getting wild high flyers. So I was analyzing his form and everything else while he was shooting. As he gets done I politely pointed out that he was wearing the clear coat off the bottom of his stock because it was touching the rear strap that holds the front bag in the rest. He looked and took his gun off the rest to check out the damages. That’s when I noticed the crease in the leather front bag. Come to find out the bag was bone dry not a thing at all inside of it. We talked with him about getting some sand in it and never seen this shooter again. It amazed me that the gun shot so well off a bag with nothing in it.
I agree with John that one must be softer than the other. But I also think they need to maintain shape and the gun must handle well with whatever fill amount works.
Sorry so long. But I think this is a great topic.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Short range Alex

Ok, I don't know then. But in long range I like this stuff. The heavier the rifle, the more forgiving the bags will be in my opinion. My bags are also softer than most. https://www.amazon.com/Stoney-River-Aquatic-Freshwater-Aquariums/dp/B001OTW77K

 

[foxguy]

Ok, I don't know then. But in long range I like this stuff. The heavier the rifle, the more forgiving the bags will be in my opinion. My bags are also softer than most. https://www.amazon.com/Stoney-River-Aquatic-Freshwater-Aquariums/dp/B001OTW77K

Thanks for sharing

 

[Dub]

I use Sinclair heavy sand in the bottom of my rear bag and decorative light sand in the ears. This helps prevent vertical for me. I use the heavy sand in my Lenzi top bag on my SEB NEO. I shoot primarily short range BR.

 

[JFrank]

I don’t use the Black Diamond media blast anymore, it seems to break down over time plus it’s just nasty stuff to breath in while filling the bags, the fill ratio or (sand management) for me is a little trial and error to find out which level keeps the rifle happy and the targets happy.

 

[xswanted]

I used some very fine aquarium sand for a bag.

It’s very dense and very heavy but it allows the bad to take a shape of that makes sense. Works great for a rear bag or if a guy needs to lay the bag over something while shooting.

 

[Bronsin]

I switched from heavy sand in the front bag and rear bag ears, to regular sand. They are full, but not plump. Even full of sand both are softer than the heavy sand ended up.