Let's talk about Spotting Scopes

[dreever]

Almost as big a topic of conversation as the guns on the line at any Ground Hog Match I've attended is the topic of Spotting Scopes. At 500 yards/meters and beyond seeing bullet holes is critical. I've seen some super expensive "Big Eye" rigs made from two Sworaskis to cheap Tascos.
Personally I went from an inexpensive Bushnell 16-36X50 to a Nikon Sky and Earth 20-60X80 to a Pentax 20-60X80ED-A, and yes I'm thinking about selling and moving up again. As the price goes up so does the clarity. A friend has a Zeiss 20-60X85 thats great...it's also $1600+ great, but you get what you pay for.

So let's open this up for discussion. What do you currently use, are you satisfied, and what would you consider the best that you've looked at?

Danny

 

[LawDog]

Danny,
Interesting topic. Like you I've been working my way up. Promise not to laugh--I started with a bargain basement Newtonian 20-40x from Belarus. Pretty miserable optics, but at $60, including a really nice tripod,that I also use for my Chrony), it does the job out to 200m. It never leaves the car. The Leupold uses the same compact design, but with way better glass.

I've also used the old war-horse, Champions Choice 22x, that I bought used. Not enough power to resolve bullet holes much past 300, but it is simple sturdy, and inexpensive at $230 from www.champchoice.com, item CC645.

I also tried out a Zeiss 20-40x, 65mm. Wow. Controls were silky smooth and I could see the grain of the target paper at 100 yards. I think they have a 50x version too. If so, I bet you could see bullet holes at 600 with that.

I wish I had more knowledge of the high-end stuff, but I suggest people look at http://www.betterviewdesired.com . It's mostly for nature watchers, but they do very detailed reports of all the top stuff. It looks like the new Swarovski ATX 65HD is their top choice in a 65mm scope.

 

[dreever]

lawdog,

Yes, www.betterviewdesired.com is a good place to go for research. That's why I went with the Pentax 80ED. Their interest is different from ours, since there is a big difference between bird feathers and bullet holes. That's why I posted to see who might want to share their thoughts since almost everybody that shoots long range has a spotting scope, or have looked thru enough at matches to offer an opinion.

So come on guys don't just read the thread jump in and tell us what your thoughts are!

Danny

 

[fuzz]

Guess I`ll get my nickels worth in here..I started out with a cheap Jason,sold it and got a B&L 15=60 and used it and used it and finally just kept it.After looking through many top end spotters I finally settled on the Kowa line.What really impressed me was we was shooting at 300 one day and I was checking out a few that was on the line and the Kowa was the only one that I could see a swarm of nats that were hovering in mid air at about 25 yds.Just my personnel thoughts...

 

[flatlander]

I started out with a Tasco World Class 25x60 straight body spotter, but since I shoot mainly XC HP & LR HP, soon decided I needed an angled body. Bought a Nikon Sky & Earth 25x60 and used it for three seasons before selling it and getting a Kowa TSN 661. Main reason for going with a Kowa is that they're the only ones making LER eyepieces. There are scopes with better optics available, but none I know of with the eye relief of Kowa's LER eyepieces - and the new WA versions they just started marketing this season are even better. I don't expect to be able to resolve .224" bullet holes in the black all the time even at 200yds., and since we used spotters on targets in XC HP matches, it really doesn't matter.

 

[dreever]

Now, I have a question for anybody out there. Have any of you had the oppurtunity to check out the new 100MM offerings from Pentax or others? I'm definately curious since you now have a 24-78 zoom to play with. But, before I shell out the big $$$ I'd like to know opinions.

 

[Shelley]

My first real spotting scope was a 24X Unertl which I still use and which I still love. It's good enough to see bullet holes out to 300 yards and is really clear. Although old I still get lots of complements on it.

I now shoot in some matches out to 400 or 500 yards and am trying to get to where I can see bullet holes that far. I've purchased a set of Vixen Astronomical 30X 125mm binoculars with which to do that job. I don't yet know how succesful I'l be as the binocs are new to me and I've had no time to try them out at long range yet. I'm going to try to post a photo of the big Vixens. These are made to look at galaxies and such.
Shelley Davidson

 

[dreever]

Shelley,

I'll be interested to see how the Vixens work out, although I fear 30X may be a bit light for 500 yards. Let us know.

Danny

 

[Shelley]

Danny,

I'm already looking at new eyepieces to up the power of the Vixens. It's a bummer that you need two instead of one.... these things are expensive. The Binocs that I have are fixed power but I have a lathe that'll do metric threads so I should be able to make the holders for the new eyepieces and thus change the power. Vixen makes a changeable version of the big 125mm Binocs but you really don't want to know the list price on them.,Over 4 grand, gasp) I picked mine up on e-bay but it still wasn't real cheap.

Vixen makes a smaller and more manageable 80mm binocular that does feature the ability to change the eyepieces and they are less than a grand at Binoculars.com. The mount and tripod will add several hundred bucks to that though. And additional pairs of eyepieces, ouch!

What power do you think is best at 400 yards?? What power for 500 yards??

David Halbloom says that in mirage you need to attach color filters to the eyepieces to help see through the mirage. Any comments on the filters?? Anyone??

Shelley

 

[Kav]

Hey Shelley, if you ever make it back from Florida you can bring those planet watchers over and we'll try them out at 500. Hope all is well, Kav

 

[dreever]

Shelley,

With my 12-42 Nightforce I can always see bullet holes @ 200 and 300 meters. Most of the time at 400 meters when the mirage is bad. Sometimes at 500 meters when the mirage is light.

My Pentax 20-60X80 ED-A is great out to 400 meters, and off and on at 500 meters depending on mirage.

Now we're talking bullet holes in a six inch white bull with scoring rings, beyond 300 to 400 it's almost impossible to see 6MM bullet holes in the black except on a good day.

If I had to recommend a power choice for 500 meters it would definately be at least 50 power. If you have a 100-125mm objective I should think 60-70 power would be do-able before the image degrades to much.

Danny

 

[jb1000br]

Danny--i agree on the "at leatst 50x"

also--how bout the new Yukon 100mm 8-100x scope??

has two objective lenses--one for up to 25x and the 100mm for 25-100x

and it is cheap!! i think MSRP was 500$

any input on this one??

BTW--danny--one ofthe guys had one of these at the ship champ shoot, but the big saucer of a lense was catching too much wind to be steady

JB

 

[dreever]

Jason,

The Yukon is available at www.opticsplanet.com for $299 and free shipping.

It would be interesting to see how one works for that price.

I'm not knocking it, it's just that over the years in trying to find something inexpensive to equal the "names",Zeiss,Pentax,Sworaski,Leica,Kowa etc) I've failed miserably. That's not to say it dosen't exist, I just haven't come across one yet.

Danny

 

[dreever]

Here's the reply from Pentax's Joe Virgil in regard to the PF-100ED VS the PF-80ED.

"The PF-100ED scope features a focal length of 625mm and is Physically larger and nearly twice the weight of the PF80-ED. The PF-80ED scope features a focal length of 500mm and is nearly less than half the weight of the PF100-ED.

The difference in magnification is about 15% greater in the PF100-ED, and field of view is about 15% less, because of the increased magnification.

Brightness is approxmately 5-7% greater in the PF100-ED, because of the larger objective.

Having personally compared both models side by side, there may be a very slight advantage in the PF100-ED but not reallly that dramatic. Both scopes deliver outstanding performance and are quite bright and very sharp. One must take price and portability into consideration."
End of quote.


Having read this, I personally cannot justify spending the almost double the price to gain the little extra over my current scope which is the PF80ED-A.

Danny

 

[RobertZwahlen]

I have a Weaver T36 that I bought new in 2001. I measured it Stop to stop and it's 6 revolutions at 9 moa/ revolution = 54 moa [NOT 60]. I am not at the range [brrrrr= 0 degrees] so I can't check if poi changes as you approach either stop.I have to go up 23.5 moa from the low stop to get to zero at 100 yds with my 308 win. So I can only go up 30.5 more. How much more moa do I need to shoot at 1000yds? I think I was told a year ago up 36" on paper at 100yd zero. Does that sound right??? What do I do to get more moa above 100yd. on my scope if I need it??? FWIW I go up 8.5 moa to go from 100 to 500yds. on ground hog shoots!!!

 

[dreever]

Robert,

Are you using a 20MOA tapered base? If not that will definately help.

Danny

 

[RobertZwahlen]

Thanks Danny. I have a two piece davidson base and Kelbly rings. This is a 100/200 BR ppc converted to 308 win for ground hog shoots. Where do I get the tapered base? Or would a shim under one of the bases work. How thick and who makes those? Looks like my post above is on the wrong thread. To update, on this thread, I got my LOMO [$350] 95 mm Mak Cassigrain reflector at Opticsplanet. FWIW Joanie [nice woman] suggested this over the Yukon. The 95's are now discontinued but LOMO makes a couple larger objectives than the 95 at many more $. I hope to get cataract surgery in about two weeks, but I could barely see 30 cal. holes at 500 like I can see them at 300 with my Weaver T36. The eye surgury hopefully will let me see 6mm and 30 clearly at 500. Thanks to you, I got a rock solid Bogen 3046 tripod on E-bay to support the telescope. As an aside, no matter what you put in front of poor vision still yields poor vision.Stay tuned for post operative reports.

 

[jb1000br]

BobZ--stiller, Shehane, and speedy G have 20MOA tapered davidson dovetail rings

Stillers:

BTW--takes me 10.5MOA to get to 500 with 175SMK's at about 2700fps.

and 37MOA for williamsport zero,1022yds)

JB