Lessons learned. Buying second hand and its follies

[Fast14riot]

My new used project gun came with a 6x250 chambered barrel. Cartridge sounds interesting, inexpensive to shoot and I began looking for dies. Having multiple new barrels on the shelf waiting for an action, I wasn't going to spend a ton of money on dies for this.

A bit of sleuthing, I ran across an ebay listing for for a "6mm-250 (6mm International)" FL sizing die. Now I know those are two different chamberings, but the die is stamped 6mm-250 and for less than a bottle of cheap rum I had it headed my way. Scrounge up some RP 22-250 brass from my pops, I thought I was golden!



My die arrived and I had my brass. The die is actually in incredibly clean condition. Nonetheless, it still gets stripped and cleaned thoroughly. The decapping stem was screwed down pretty far when I got it, so I just screwed it out the bottom of the die. I see it came with a tapered expander button, which it nice, should be able to neck up with this die no problem!

I take my freshly annealed 22-250 brass, lube inside the necks, rub a little around the outside too. Put it in the shell holder and carefully raise the ram to be sure it aligns with the expander and doesn't destroy the case mouth. Give it a good push to get it started, back it out to make sure its expanding, and then finish it off. This is where the trouble started...

I then proceed to continue to run the brass up the die to FL size the brass as well. Its a little tough, but then the handle just breezes all the way through its stroke as the ram flies to the top and meets the die.

Hmm, ok, bit weird, so reverse and I see a new accordion shoulder, 6x250 case looking back at me! SH!T. So, let's try again. Same song, same dance...... same result.



Ok, now I'm confused. I know I didn't over anneal the brass. I take the die apart again, thus time I go to unscrew the decapping stem out the top and the expander button will not pass through the neck of the die! WTF?! Ok, something is rotten in Denmark here. Out it comes from the bottom. Throw the calipers on the expander button and see it measures .276"! A 6.8mm expander button?! After smaking my own forehead for not measuring the expander when I received the die, I decided to try with the expander very low to just open the necks up, then remove it to try and close it back down to 6mm. And again, more ruined brass. Dammit.



So, I send RCBS an email asking for price and availability of a 6mm tapered expander button to make this die correct. We'll see after Tuesday what the verdict is.

Lesson learned. Inspect every single part of a die or anything you buy from eBay!

I know I'm not the first, and far from the last to get caught up in our own enthusiasm for new toys. Que sera, sera.

 

[K22]

Buying 'second hand' is a risk - always a risk. Purchasing 'sight unseen' doubles the risk.

When it comes to firearms, I've purchased a few revolvers "second" hand in the old days and got great deals on them. But was able to inspect them first and I knew what to look for to access the condition, i.e., degree of flame cut on the top strap, timing, wear on the hand, condition of the bore, condition of the crown very critical because before those pull through cleaning devices, you had to clean from the muzzle - a delicate process at best to do it right.

 

[Bc'z]

Alex remove expander completely run annealed brass into die to set the shoulders, expand neck with mandrel.
Check to see if it chambers.
Then have a beer if successful!!

 

[Fast14riot]

I got this rifle for less than the sum of the parts. Cheap enough that I didn't care about the barrel. Just happened to be that the barrel had minimal wear and was still usable. Which is why I decided to find a cheap die for it. I did buy the rifle from my LGS where it sat for over 6 years on the consignment rack. They finally dropped the price low enough that I didn't count the barrel as part of the sale.

Brett, like we discussed on the phone, I dont already use expander mandrels for my other 6mm chamberings, and I still want this die to be correct for resizing anyway. So I'll still need the correct 6mm expander button that if I decide to send this barrel along I have a complete and effective die to go with it.

 

[Newhouse]

My new used project gun came with a 6x250 chambered barrel. Cartridge sounds interesting, inexpensive to shoot and I began looking for dies. Having multiple new barrels on the shelf waiting for an action, I wasn't going to spend a ton of money on dies for this.

A bit of sleuthing, I ran across an ebay listing for for a "6mm-250 (6mm International)" FL sizing die. Now I know those are two different chamberings, but the die is stamped 6mm-250 and for less than a bottle of cheap rum I had it headed my way. Scrounge up some RP 22-250 brass from my pops, I thought I was golden!

View attachment 1351597

My die arrived and I had my brass. The die is actually in incredibly clean condition. Nonetheless, it still gets stripped and cleaned thoroughly. The decapping stem was screwed down pretty far when I got it, so I just screwed it out the bottom of the die. I see it came with a tapered expander button, which it nice, should be able to neck up with this die no problem!

I take my freshly annealed 22-250 brass, lube inside the necks, rub a little around the outside too. Put it in the shell holder and carefully raise the ram to be sure it aligns with the expander and doesn't destroy the case mouth. Give it a good push to get it started, back it out to make sure its expanding, and then finish it off. This is where the trouble started...

I then proceed to continue to run the brass up the die to FL size the brass as well. Its a little tough, but then the handle just breezes all the way through its stroke as the ram flies to the top and meets the die.

Hmm, ok, bit weird, so reverse and I see a new accordion shoulder, 6x250 case looking back at me! SH!T. So, let's try again. Same song, same dance...... same result.

View attachment 1351598

Ok, now I'm confused. I know I didn't over anneal the brass. I take the die apart again, thus time I go to unscrew the decapping stem out the top and the expander button will not pass through the neck of the die! WTF?! Ok, something is rotten in Denmark here. Out it comes from the bottom. Throw the calipers on the expander button and see it measures .276"! A 6.8mm expander button?! After smaking my own forehead for not measuring the expander when I received the die, I decided to try with the expander very low to just open the necks up, then remove it to try and close it back down to 6mm. And again, more ruined brass. Dammit.

View attachment 1351599

So, I send RCBS an email asking for price and availability of a 6mm tapered expander button to make this die correct. We'll see after Tuesday what the verdict is.

Lesson learned. Inspect every single part of a die or anything you buy from eBay!

I know I'm not the first, and far from the last to get caught up in our own enthusiasm for new toys. Que sera, sera.

I bought a hornady die and bullet seater from the for sale section here and when I use it to seat a bullet, the shoulder looks like yours. After taking diimensions and talking to the Hornady tech, the aligning sleeve was for a different caliber. Hornady sent me a different aligning sleeve and was able to seat the bullets as normal.
Seller swore up that the sizing die and bullet seater where for the same caliber. Yep, I will be careful next time I buy use/second hand dies.

 

[Fern]

Rcbs is incredible. I called today about my expander stem being bent. They are sending new one for my 22-250.
I told them I misplaced my primer rod for my hand primer and wanted to buy replacement and once again thank you for being a rcbs customer well ship those out to no charge.
I can’t speak enough about their great customer service. Because of this I recently picked up a second press to have inside the house because in Phoenix it’s too hot to work in the garage lol

 

[Fast14riot]

I heard back from RCBS, I asked for part numbers for the tapered expander and lock nut, because I bought the die from eBay, it shouldn't be their responsibility to send me the parts free, but they told me to buy the expander assembly ($8) and they'll throw in a lock nut at no charge! I can't complain about that!

 

[Fast14riot]

Update

Finally got the die working, encountered another issue with it, too, but all is solved now.

So I ordered a new 6mm tapered decapping stem (can't but just the buttons anymore) and the new one I receive is 10-32. The stem in the die and guide bushing for the stem are 1/4-28. In my state of frustration I was focused on the expander being the wrong size, it never occurred to me that the decapping stem itself is larger than 6mm!





So, quick call to my dad who has a bunch of RCBS die sets and parts (I dont really use RCBS dies) and he happens to have a spare 10-32 guide bushing and standard expander button for 6mm. I get the parts from him, assemble the die, carefully run the brass up and viola! Perfectly formed 6x250 brass! It still chambers a bit tight, I suspect its base diameter issue, I'll have to check if any of my ring dies will size it down, but I'm now able to make a couple dummy rounds! 108eldm, 80 Spitzer, 6br 107smk



Now just to figure out a seating die for this. Used my 6br die to seat these dummy round, but I'd prefer a dedicated seating die. I know a 250 savage die will work, but I'm unsure if a 22/250 die would fit. 6 creedmoor would work as well.

 

[Webster]

My new used project gun came with a 6x250 chambered barrel. Cartridge sounds interesting, inexpensive to shoot and I began looking for dies. Having multiple new barrels on the shelf waiting for an action, I wasn't going to spend a ton of money on dies for this.

A bit of sleuthing, I ran across an ebay listing for for a "6mm-250 (6mm International)" FL sizing die. Now I know those are two different chamberings, but the die is stamped 6mm-250 and for less than a bottle of cheap rum I had it headed my way. Scrounge up some RP 22-250 brass from my pops, I thought I was golden!

View attachment 1351597

My die arrived and I had my brass. The die is actually in incredibly clean condition. Nonetheless, it still gets stripped and cleaned thoroughly. The decapping stem was screwed down pretty far when I got it, so I just screwed it out the bottom of the die. I see it came with a tapered expander button, which it nice, should be able to neck up with this die no problem!

I take my freshly annealed 22-250 brass, lube inside the necks, rub a little around the outside too. Put it in the shell holder and carefully raise the ram to be sure it aligns with the expander and doesn't destroy the case mouth. Give it a good push to get it started, back it out to make sure its expanding, and then finish it off. This is where the trouble started...

I then proceed to continue to run the brass up the die to FL size the brass as well. Its a little tough, but then the handle just breezes all the way through its stroke as the ram flies to the top and meets the die.

Hmm, ok, bit weird, so reverse and I see a new accordion shoulder, 6x250 case looking back at me! SH!T. So, let's try again. Same song, same dance...... same result.

View attachment 1351598

Ok, now I'm confused. I know I didn't over anneal the brass. I take the die apart again, thus time I go to unscrew the decapping stem out the top and the expander button will not pass through the neck of the die! WTF?! Ok, something is rotten in Denmark here. Out it comes from the bottom. Throw the calipers on the expander button and see it measures .276"! A 6.8mm expander button?! After smaking my own forehead for not measuring the expander when I received the die, I decided to try with the expander very low to just open the necks up, then remove it to try and close it back down to 6mm. And again, more ruined brass. Dammit.

View attachment 1351599

So, I send RCBS an email asking for price and availability of a 6mm tapered expander button to make this die correct. We'll see after Tuesday what the verdict is.

Lesson learned. Inspect every single part of a die or anything you buy from eBay!

I know I'm not the first, and far from the last to get caught up in our own enthusiasm for new toys. Que sera, sera.

You don't need an expander. I remove them from all my dies.

 

[Fast14riot]

You don't need an expander. I remove them from all my dies.

For necking up 22-250 brass, I do.