Legal ramifications of using reloaded ammunition

[BenPerfected]

It is a bigger risk to not come a full stop at a stop sign

 

[timeout]

It would be nice to hear from an attorney. It would be better that endless pages of speculation.

Terry, the problem with this is by asking 6 different attorneys, you will receive 6 different answers.

 

[4xforfun]

If there is a question of "which bullet" when it comes to liability, then "what caliber" should too. Why use a .45 when a 22 rimfire can get the job done?

It is the liberal mindset to win the battle 51 - 49. Me....I'll take a 100 - 0 win every time!!!

Tod

 

[LitLBoy]

Here in Ohio we have the "Castle Doctrine" In short if you are not convicted in criminal court of a crime in a self defense shooting you can not be taken to civil court and sued for damages. I believe many other states have passed this same law.

 

[Drolds72]

this article has some interesting examples of how the defense and the courts can twist it to use against you....
http://www.gundigest.com/gun-blogs/books/handloads-not-a-good-idea-for-concealed-carry

 

[Lapua40X]

Let's break it down to the practical point.
Don't fire the weapon unless you intend to kill the target.
If you intend to kill the target it doesn't matter whether you use a handload or a factory load. Dead is dead ....

 

[BLCKWLF]

Here in Ohio we have the "Castle Doctrine" In short if you are not convicted in criminal court of a crime in a self defense shooting you can not be taken to civil court and sued for damages. I believe many other states have passed this same law.

That's not castle doctrine, that's civil immunity...

 

[joshb]

I'll stay practical, too. Somebody suggested buying a good defensive round for carry use. That's what to do in my book for one big reason. Reliability. I reload very carefully. Been doing it for 45 years. Even then, maybe one load in 100 or 200 rounds doesn't go bang. That's too large a percentage for me. Factory loads for self defense for me.

 

[V509]

Are there any real examples of hand loaded ammo in a self defense case?
Or just instructor's stories?

 

[ShootDots]

Are there any real examples of hand loaded ammo in a self defense case?
Or just instructor's stories?

That "instructor", in my aforementioned reply, was a lead Prosecutor in the Harris County District Attorney's Office who was giving us an In-Service School in "Legal Updates / Penal Code Changes" which are held every 2 years. I believe he would qualify as an "instructor"..

 

[tenring]

You are blending 2 different topics. ONE: factory or Loaded ammo has no difference as far as the CRIMINAL aspect of using deadly force. TWO: Civil liability is another topic altogether. You can be sued for anything. If the family of the dead assailant wants to sue because you killed their family member, they can sue. /QUOTE]

That answer is correct. Prior to my retirement, I was a part time LEO and full time product liability investigator. I conducted many investigations for Winchester-Olin. I have worked hand in hand with many defense attorneys. The rules in civil litigation are much more liberal, and almost anything goes. Even in a wrongful death civil action, I do not believe the type of bullet (whether or not reloaded), which is alleged to cause injury or death, would be significant. A victim might die from wounds caused by a FMJ as well as from a solid point.

 

[timeout]

In the CCW class that I attended, the instructor stated that if our life was "threatened", shoot to "stop the threat". I would interpret that to mean kill. In that case I want an adequate sized caliber with the best ammo available to "stop the threat".

 

[Corey Schwanz]

In the CCW class that I attended, the instructor stated that if our life was "threatened", shoot to "stop the threat". I would interpret that to mean kill. In that case I want an adequate sized caliber with the best ammo available to "stop the threat".

"Stop the threat" means "stop the threat". If the baseball bat guy at the gas station from earlier tries to hit you and you shoot him in the stomach and he drops to the ground and just lays there in pain while the bat rolls down the hill where he can't get to it, then you've stopped the threat. It was justified because you were afraid for your life. But if you keep shooting beyond that point, then it could be a different story.

As for the main topic, factory only for me.

 

[timeout]

That's not castle doctrine, that's civil immunity...

It is a part of our castle doctrine here in WI. (officially known as 2011 WI. Act 94) (2) Except as provided in sub. (4), an actor is immune from civil liability arising out of his or her use of force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm if the actor reasonably believed that the force was necessary to prevent imminent death or bodily harm to himself or herself or to another person and either of the following applies:

 

[timeout]

"Stop the threat" means "stop the threat". If the baseball bat guy at the gas station from earlier tries to hit you and you shoot him in the stomach and he drops to the ground and just lays there in pain while the bat rolls down the hill where he can't get to it, then you've stopped the threat. It was justified because you were afraid for your life. But if you keep shooting beyond that point, then it could be a different story.

As for the main topic, factory only for me.

Obviously at that point you would not continue to shoot. Have you seen the video of the law officer in Chicago that emptied a full mag into a man? The video was withheld from the public a year or so for political reasons. Hard to believe that would happen in ChiTown.

 

[johnfred1965]

I'll stay practical, too. Somebody suggested buying a good defensive round for carry use. That's what to do in my book for one big reason. Reliability. I reload very carefully. Been doing it for 45 years. Even then, maybe one load in 100 or 200 rounds doesn't go bang. That's too large a percentage for me. Factory loads for self defense for me.

If you are having that kind of failure rate, you aren't being careful enough. I expect my reloads to be as reliable as any factory load.

As for a threat, if you have to use your firearm, it is a deadly weapon and should be employed that way if the need arises. if your lawyer can't convince a jury the bullet you used was the best one for YOUR defense, you should find another lawyer

 

[LHSmith]

This argument comes up continually, but nobody can cite a case as evidence.....

Great point! Still waiting on answer....not even a case from San Francisco? Chicago?
Also, where is the evidence that factory ammo is 100% reliable?

 

[BLCKWLF]

It is a part of our castle doctrine here in WI. (officially known as 2011 WI. Act 94) (2) Except as provided in sub. (4), an actor is immune from civil liability arising out of his or her use of force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm if the actor reasonably believed that the force was necessary to prevent imminent death or bodily harm to himself or herself or to another person and either of the following applies:

They may be listed under the same act, but they are separate terms.
Castle Doctrine is not synonymous with Civil Immunity.

Still, as stated previously, I don't believe using a reloaded round in defense will be detrimental to the justification, but it can raise some questions and doubts if presented in such a way.
Civil court is a completely different ballgame...

That said, if you are ruled justified in criminal court, and your state has civil immunity, that simply means that the complainant won't be victorious in civil court. You can still be sued and have to front the cost until you file a motion for dismissal pursuant to the civil immunity clause.

 

[JRS]

The ammo probably doesn't matter one way or another, but why would you take that chance and give a Prosecutor ammo [pun intended] to use against you? A search on your google machine for Massad Ayoob can uncover a number of reasons why he recommends to avoid using hand loads for defensive purposes. He has been an "expert witness" in shooting cases for a few decades.

 

[timeout]

They may be listed under the same act, but they are separate terms.
Castle Doctrine is not synonymous with Civil Immunity.

Still, as stated previously, I don't believe using a reloaded round in defense will be detrimental to the justification, but it can raise some questions and doubts if presented in such a way.
Civil court is a completely different ballgame...

That said, if you are ruled justified in criminal court, and your state has civil immunity, that simply means that the complainant won't be victorious in civil court. You can still be sued and have to front the cost until you file a motion for dismissal pursuant to the civil immunity clause.

Your law is evidently not written as ours. https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/related/acts/94