Lee seater dies?

[mao0720]

How good are they for producing straight ammo? I just picked up a Lee deluxe die set with the collet neck sizer for my 308. This is an upgrade from the RCBS standard full length sizer and seater I have been using. I noticed that the lee seater does not have a locking nut just a friction O-ring, and the seater stem floats inside. My question is this, is the Lee seater better for producing straight ammo than the RCBS?

 

[BigDMT]

The LEE may produce straighter ammo, but it's not really an "upgrade". If you want to upgrade and get away from bullet seating runout, you gotta foot the bill for a competition seater of some sort where the case is fully supported befor bullet seating begins.

I do know that even if the LEE produces straighter ammo, it will not produce consistent ammo if you do not replace the lock ring. Those lock rings move, cannot be set at the same depth in the press consistently, and the o-ring will wear eventually causing more issues. Order some Forster lock rings, they are the best and easiest to adjust. With good lock rings, the LEE dies aren't so bad.

 

[boltgunluvr]

I've owned much more expensive dies but I went with Lee years ago because "other brands" were not offering me anything better. I do believe that one's consistent reloading practices are a big part of the equation. I really agree with Lee's philosophy.....simplicity. The Lee factory crimp die and neck sizing collet dies have served me very well. I check runout with the Hornady concentricity gauge and ammo generally stays within .003. That's pretty darn good. I don't compete, nor am I a "benchrest shooter."

 

[Tozguy]

How good are they for producing straight ammo? I just picked up a Lee deluxe die set with the collet neck sizer for my 308. This is an upgrade from the RCBS standard full length sizer and seater I have been using. I noticed that the lee seater does not have a locking nut just a friction O-ring, and the seater stem floats inside. My question is this, is the Lee seater better for producing straight ammo than the RCBS?

The Lee seater is not better than the RCBS in my opinion. It does the basic job (especially with less than perfect cases) however there are better designs out there for controling bullet alignment during seating. BTW have a look at Sinclair's stainless lock rings why you are at it.

 

[ar10ar15man]

i have a seater in 45acp..and after thousands of rounds..feeding three 45's..it stays very consistant in oal...
the oring seems to work...

 

[kelbro]

Like most things in reloading, it depends. I have found many Lee seaters in the past that produced incredibly concentric loads. One or two that did not. It probably depends on the cut of the die.

 

[mao0720]

I should clarify. I meant that the Lee kit, with the collet neck sizer, was an upgrade, not that the seater was an upgrade. And ultimately my question is, should I use my Lee or my RCBS seater, or will it make that much of a difference. The floating seating stem in the lee kind of concerned me on first look, but I guess it could theoreticly self center and reduce runout. By the way, I have no means of measuring runout at this point. That is on the long list of thing to get.

 

[Shynloco]

How good are they for producing straight ammo? I just picked up a Lee deluxe die set with the collet neck sizer for my 308. This is an upgrade from the RCBS standard full length sizer and seater I have been using. I noticed that the lee seater does not have a locking nut just a friction O-ring, and the seater stem floats inside. My question is this, is the Lee seater better for producing straight ammo than the RCBS?

IMHO, Lee dies are the ONLY thing Lee produces that is worth a darn. For the money, they are hard to beat, but I wouldn't rely on them if you are talking Benchrest competition. Otherwise I started out with Lee products and the dies are the ONLY items I've kept (as backup to Redding and Wilson Dies should they fail in a pinch) and the rest has either been given away or thrown in the trash where it belongs.

Alex

 

[BigDMT]

I should clarify. I meant that the Lee kit, with the collet neck sizer, was an upgrade, not that the seater was an upgrade. And ultimately my question is, should I use my Lee or my RCBS seater, or will it make that much of a difference. The floating seating stem in the lee kind of concerned me on first look, but I guess it could theoreticly self center and reduce runout. By the way, I have no means of measuring runout at this point. That is on the long list of thing to get.

Well that kinda leaves everything in the dark now doesn't it?

 

[mao0720]

I am not shooting benchrest. Just informal long range shooting when I can and hope to shoot my first mid range FT/R soon. And while I do not have concentricity gauge right now I do know that my FT/R loads done up in my RCBS dies have been very accurate. I just want to make sure Im not going to degrade the accuracy of my load by using the lee seater.

 

[BigDMT]

I am not shooting benchrest. Just informal long range shooting when I can and hope to shoot my first mid range FT/R soon. And while I do not have concentricity gauge right now I do know that my FT/R loads done up in my RCBS dies have been very accurate. I just want to make sure Im not going to degrade the accuracy of my load by using the lee seater.

Ever heard the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

I doubt you will see much degradation or increase in accuracy. But now I'm really confused as to why you wanted to start using LEE.

 

[mao0720]

I wanted to start using the lee for the collet neck sizer. I have only shot virgin brass through my FT/R rig and I wanted to upgrade my sizing dies over the RCBS. I can still use the RCBS seater, I was just wondering about the lee seater, and if it was any better or worse than the RCBS. Sorry, I reallized my OP wasnt that clear.

 

[BigDMT]

Ok, I see now. I would say no, the LEE is no better. Like the one of the other members stated, it probably depends on the cut of the die.

And if it was cut on a Monday or a Friday LEE can no doubt make excellent dies for their intended purposes, but when dealing in any products that cost as little to produce as LEE, it can sometimes be a "crap shoot" and with no way to measure runout, you won't know what you have or if a problem lies within the die, bullets, or the brass.

If you read various reviews on all LEE products, you will see 5 star reviews and 1 star reviews. And who knows how much experience the shooters writing them actually have, but it no doubt verifies the inconsistency in manufacturing one way or another.

Then you read reviews from something like a Redding Type S Competition seater, and you aren't going to find many, if any, bad reviews. But of course you are gonna pay a lot more for that quality.

 

[amlevin]

Lee Dies have their pluses and minuses. I've used them for 40+ years and have both loved and hated them over all that time.

Their Sizing dies are great for preventing lube dents and not breaking de-priming pins. They suck for polish on their interior.

The Seater Die is great with the sliding seater plug. Nice Straight finished cartridges--------as long as the seater plug is fairly snug in the die. If it's sloppy then that's the amount of runout you can expect. The o-ring on the adjuster screw does just what it's supposed to do, keepit from turning while seating. If you doubt it's doing that, just put a "Sharpie" mark on both the die and screw after you adjust it for length and see if it moves. Mine doesn't. I find that seating issues can be more of a problem with a loose press. To prevent this I have a surface ground washer I drop over the case just before I raise it into the die. When the press fully contacts the washer and bottom of the die, I have the case in the exact same position every time I seat a bullet. When measuring seating depth at the ogive I find less than .001" of variation using this method with a Cheap Lee Seater Die.

As for the Collet Die, again, love/hate. Love how straight it neck sizes the cases and the fact it requires no lube on the case at all. Hate the ridges that can form on the case neck. To keep these to a minimum I just size the neck then rotate the case 45 degrees and size again. this presses down any ridge that might form. BTW, they don't harm anything they are just visually annoying.

 

[bow shot]

1) First, you need brass that has consistent wall thickness completely around the perimiter. You do this either by measuring the neck-wall thickness of each case and sort... or just have faith in expensive brass (Norma, Laupua, Nosler). If you don't start there, you are in for a world of anguish IMHO. YES you can get good TIR at the bullet with brass that has a perimiter that (when looking at the open neck) looks like a crescent moon, but you'll find in the long run that it is a straighter an CHEAPER course to go with good, expensive brassf.

2) Second, you will need a sizing method that does not distort the concentricity of the neck. Many of us either use a Lee collet die (big fan..) a bushing-style neck sizing die, or have a FL die honed so that no expander is required. It is known/suspected by many of us that the expander in most full length dies is an evil thing that ruins concentricity... but also that some wise men can make it "behave", and not cause thing to go out of skew.

3) Third, worry about the seater last. You can't get good concentricity from the seater alone. I choose Wilson. I dont know WHY my Hornady seater is.... awful, maybe I got a bad one?? 'But I do know my Wilsons (4 calibers) are fantastic.

4) Last but really first, you need the measuring tools to really KNOW what your TIR is. BUT, if you cant or won't measure, then IMHO, if you do items 1-3 you'll do well.

I'm not a great mind, so I'm sure I've missed something... so brethren, don't be shy about contradicing or correcting me!!

Man... the money I blew chaisng the concentricty thing otherwise.....

 

[DanSavage]

Lee Dies have their pluses and minuses. I've used them for 40+ years and have both loved and hated them over all that time.

Their Sizing dies are great for preventing lube dents and not breaking de-priming pins. They suck for polish on their interior.

The Seater Die is great with the sliding seater plug. Nice Straight finished cartridges--------as long as the seater plug is fairly snug in the die. If it's sloppy then that's the amount of runout you can expect. The o-ring on the adjuster screw does just what it's supposed to do, keepit from turning while seating. If you doubt it's doing that, just put a "Sharpie" mark on both the die and screw after you adjust it for length and see if it moves. Mine doesn't. I find that seating issues can be more of a problem with a loose press. To prevent this I have a surface ground washer I drop over the case just before I raise it into the die. When the press fully contacts the washer and bottom of the die, I have the case in the exact same position every time I seat a bullet. When measuring seating depth at the ogive I find less than .001" of variation using this method with a Cheap Lee Seater Die.

As for the Collet Die, again, love/hate. Love how straight it neck sizes the cases and the fact it requires no lube on the case at all. Hate the ridges that can form on the case neck. To keep these to a minimum I just size the neck then rotate the case 45 degrees and size again. this presses down any ridge that might form. BTW, they don't harm anything they are just visually annoying.

This is exactly my experience with the Lee collet and seating die's. I also use a washer over the case resting on the shell holder and get extremely good seating depth consistency of less than .001.

One thing I did is I chucked up the seater plug in a drill and took a sharp pair of scissors and opened up the plug hole to get the contact alot closer to the orgive of the bullet. When you get close to where you want it wrap emery cloth around a bullet and spin the plug onto that for a nice finishing touch.

Dan