Lee equipment for a new reloader

[fm1947]

A little history first, I am 95% retired and I help a good friend of mine who has a indoor range and full line store www.topgunss.com and I maintain this web store http://shop.topgunss.com/ I handle volume brass sales, and Teach rifle reloading, And basic rifle.

Recently a customer came in and had no experience in reloading and wanted to learn he had just ordered a Savage Model 10 BA nice gun
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/finder/# in a .308

So I had to recommend a beginners start up kit, I ordered the Lee kit what a mistake the press was not bad for a new person, but that scale was terrible and the powder measure just rediculous it varied as much as one grain, all the other guys I tought to reload rifle had experience in pistol and new what MFG they liked, I have been reloading 30 years I know I started with Lee press but just can't remember what I did for the rest of it, I do have a Hornady beam scale laying around I guess thats what I bought, I had him come to my house so he could see what I use and let him decide if he wanted to spend more money as it turned out he said going with the RCBS Charge master was the ticket. I had a Redding and Hornady powder measure also for him to work. The only thing in the kit that was worth reloading with was the press and the dies the rest is useless.

For you new reloaders don't buy the kit, press and dies are ok.

 

[2506]

I will wholeheartedly agree with you with two exceptions. Unless the press is the CAST steel press it will let you down at some point if you load very much. The other is the Lee hand priming tool is pretty good also. For anyone starting out it is best to just bite the bullet and pay more for RCBS, Lyman etc. all steel products and be done with it for life.

 

[NorCalMikie]

I've always had reservations with expressing my opinion on Lee Reloading equipment but I'll chime in now. The Lee Auto Prime is one of the better units out there. I've gone through a few over the years. The only weak part is the handle. Not sure how many I've replaced but I'd rather replace the handles than switch to a different Mfg. It'a a "feel" thing.
The Lee presses are junk. Never tried one of their bigger "steel" presses but I wore out one of their smaller presses and would never buy another one. Just couldn't handle MIL 5.56 and 7.62 brass. The dies leave a lot to be desired. Decapping pin wouldn't stay in place.
Lee equipment? Maybe in a pinch but get something better for the long run. IMHO. just not up to the task.
I went to a RCBS Rockchucker and havn't looked back.
RCBS dies, Forster Precision Bushing Bump Dies, RCBS powder measure, 505 Scale, RCBS Power Case Trimmer and a few other goodies to get the job done. The Rockchucker will last you a lifetime with a warranty to match as well as their dies and other equipment.

 

[BoydAllen]

About the measure....
A fellow that wrote well, and tested extensively, published an article about powder measures and techniques in Precision Shooting, many years beck. In that article, he mentioned that the Lee measure did as well as any other measure, making it a considerable value. I have not tried one, but I do know that different measures often require different techniques to extract their best performance. Perhaps the Lee requires a little experimentation. In any case, for many powders, that are too coarse to measure well, one has to throw low and trickle. What powder did you test the Lee with?

 

[fdshuster]

fm1947: I'm with NorCalMikie on the Lee presses, the "Challanger" in particular. A piece of junk. The critical linkage is made from die cast pot metal and in normal use the round holes quickly become egg shaped. I do not believe in any "starter kits", the manufacturers way of getting you to buy all of their products in one package. Few, if any manufacturer makes all of the tools available that are the best. Brand R may make a high quality scale & press. Brand L may make high quality dies. A good example is the powder funnel. Do you want to use the .29 cent plastic funnel that was included with the "kit", or do you want a Satern powder funnel? RCBS Rockchucker, Redding, Forster & Wilson dies, RCBS powder scale, Sinclair specialized tools, etc. have worked well for me. They all last a lifetime, in contrast to an item made with die cast pot metal and/or plastic. As with so many other items, you get what you pay for.

 

[fm1947]

I did leave out the primer tool was ok, I have come to the conclusion that for a new person from this point on I will recommend the better choices you all have mentions RCBS press I have, I use all Redding and Forster dies, I use all plug in stuff, chargemaster, trimmer all RCBS

I guess if you can't afford the good stuff maybe I should tell some don't bother, that really is how I feel about it, but I don't want to piss anyone off.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Frank: You said it. You get what you pay for. You may pay more for starters but in the long run, you got a better deal.
And some of us have to buy the inferior "junk" to find out.
Experience is "almost" always the best teacher. ;D

 

[fdshuster]

fm1947: After thinking about your original posting, I should have mentioned: I believe a lot of choices for what type of reloading equipment to buy will depend on the type of shooting planned. If loading 9mm for a handgun blasting at tin cans, then all of the less costly will probably do the job. At the other end if loading for benchrest competition, then only the best will be required. But for the basics, press, dies and powder measuring the best one can afford might be the best choice.

 

[NorCalMikie]

fm1947: In your case, the customer would be better served with you giving him your opinion about the equipment than selling him something that you didn't think was up to par?
Better to have him "ticked off" now than having him come back later and suggest you sold him inferior junk? ???

 

[sdneil]

The new Lee hand primer tool ( XR whatever ) is not very user friendly, I bought one, huge mistake, took it back, was happy to only loose 10.00 on it, store said they could not sell it for new, thus the loss, the old primer tool was excellent, have aquired 2 old primer tools and am good to go for a while.... Neil

 

[BoilerUP]

All my reloading stuff is Lee, with the exception of a MXX-123 scale, RCBS puller, RCBS trickler, and some other brand powder funnel. "Buy once cry once" is a good way to go getting an RCBS press, Forster/Redding dies, etc. but for somebody who is just getting started and isn't sure if they will stick with reloading I think Lee products are a good way to go.

The Lee stuff isn't "great", but using it I produce loads that consistently & reliably shoot sub-half MOA in my 223 and 260. I won't win any F-class comps, but they are working well for my uses now. Only time I've had decapping pin issues with Pacesetter FL dies is when I didn't allow OneShot lube sufficient time to dry on brass before attempting to size it, and every time I've had any issue with equipment Lee's customer service was quick to respond, typically at no charge to me.

I get as much as 2 grain variation on the Perfect Powder Measure using extruded powders like Varget, 4831SC and 4350...its useful for getting 'close' but I certainly wouldn't throw rifle charges with it unless I was making blasting/plinking ammo.

You can do better than Lee, but its a great way to get started on a budget...and even with 'Lee junk' my accuracy was much better than factory ammo.

 

[Larryh128]

The 1st loader that I bought was the Lee kit because that was what I could afford at the time. The powder measure is not accurate enough for serious reloading but the auto prime & the powder measure operate great. I have had several powder measures(read a lot more expenseve) that in my opinion were junk. All went on ebay to new homes. I continue to use a Lee powder measure today because it does what I want it to do. Always within a couple tenths on a drop & most of the time depending upon the powder that I'm using, it drops on the money. I still use the press for 40 S & W & it stays set up. Really have had no complaints about Lee dies either. I think that they have come a long way in the last 10 years.

 

[debubba]

I bought an RCBS kit about 25 years ago. I have replaced the measure and scale, but the press is still in use after tens of thousands of rounds

 

[bozo699]

I've always had reservations with expressing my opinion on Lee Reloading equipment but I'll chime in now.

I have tried to keep my thought quiet on the subject as well Mike but now that it is on the table here goes,.... The old saying you get what you pay for usually always holds true and imo no different in this case. I was in the automotive repair business years ago and I came to the conclusion years ago that a lot of people have a feddish for cheap and or inexpensive stuff,...yet expect top shelf results. When I first started out I put up with people bringing me cheap parts to put on there cars because they didn't want to pay my price for the parts but after several customers brought there vehicles back for warranty work because the CHEAP glued on checker auto parts brake pad failed that THEY BOUGHT I got real tired of it in a real hurry and if they weren't willing to use my Raybestos or other top shelf parts then I wasn't interested in doing the work. There is a reason that a Redding press costs more then a whole Lee starter set, YES your buying a name,...because the name stands for something,....QUALITY!! I own some Lee equipment but don't buy much of it or use much of it anymore, I also for years used the lee auto prime and for the cheaper hand primers it probably was the best but the new one is unreliable and unsafe piece of JUNK!! I agree with Frank I would never buy a starter kit for reloading or anything else for that matter for the same reasons. My reloading bench is a rainbow, a smorgasbord if you will of reloading equipment, if you buy a inferior piece of equipment you will struggle with it for years, then it WILL fail and you will have to purchase another, cry once by footing the bill once for top shelf stuff
Wayne.

 

[fm1947]

norcal mike, bozo all the rest of you thanks for your input, I will have to approach this like you said , In my opinion Mr. Joes I can not recommend Lee equipment and here is what I would start with, RCBS, Hornady,Redding end of the story, I don't do the pistol class another guy does, a bunch of the pistol guys buy the Dillon right out, we dispaly the 650 and the Lee whatever it is.

NorCalMike, I assume you are in Northern California is that correct, if so I will be in Napa soon, from cold Missouri to sunny maybe Napa Valley can't wait.

 

[fm1947]

I also teach Scope skills, to try to help make safer hunters and so forth, I got into learning milling some years ago, when I was in Military 1966 to 1970 I was trained on M14 no scopes back then, so just for my own knowledge I got into it, I do this scope class FREE today seems everyone wants a Mil-Dot scope but have no idea how to mil, they even think mil means military, I can understand that, so before deer season we had the class I was confused that math skills are not what I thought, I have made several calculators from microsoft excel, useing laptop and projector we put it on the wall to explain mils, well they all looked like deer looking into headlight , blank look, had no clue I even made a calculator that shows change in value of moa or mil at different power setting according to where the scope ranges at example a Nighforce 10x42 mil or moa range at 22x at 100 yards moa is 1.047 and 1 mil.is 3.6 inches , once you go above 22x the value changes so I made a excel spreadsheet for that also, but no one really gets it they all want sniper rifles today with mil scopes but no idea what to do with it, it amazeing the money spent on guns in the store .338L and 50s and never are shot , a 338L in the store wil last about a wk if that 50s are gone before they get there, just amazeing. Don't think will do anymore classes on scopes.

 

[NorCalMikie]

It was 25* here this morning so I'am not too sure there will be that much of a change? Sure beats snow piled up 3+ feet deep. I'am about 2 hours North of the Napa area. Cold mornings and clear days, so far. Not much rain but we're due .

Thinking back, if someone wants to get started in reloading, a Lee kit "may" do the job but if they plan on really getting into it, there's a lot better choices out there.
Start out and not like it, no problem. Long term reloading? Get the "good stuff".
If anybody "really" gets into reloading, it won't be too long and they'll be after the expensive and better quality gear that will last a long time. Again, JMHO, Mike.

 

[fm1947]

Mike Great 2 hours from Napa both my daughters have moved to napa and I miss them bad, me and the wife plan on many flights out there I called a few ranges out that way I have to find out what it will take to send a rifle are two out and ammo, when I go there I would like to shoot either Varmit for score or 600 yard anything can you help me with a range that offers that year round, if it works out I will just buy another set of reloading stuff for california

 

[NorCalMikie]

Some of the guys are shooting at Sacramento. (maybe 1 1/2 hours from Napa? Someone should be able to get you up and going. (I don't compete in matches) Just an ammo burner/paper killer.

 

[fm1947]

heard about Sacramento, about 1 hour my sister said from napa, thanks