Lee Collet Die

[xxx]

Hi all. I have been shooting and reloading for AR's for quite some time with good success. Now I have a .308 bolt gun and am TRYING to reload using the neck sizing only method with the die listed above and having the dickens of a time getting it right. I am using .308 LC Match brass.
Initially, using my once shot brass(shot thru my rifle), I couldn't get the brass to feed into the die. Someone suggested that I play with the "prongs" inside the die. So I did that and got them to feed into the die properly.
I then charged the brass with Varget and when I attempted to seat the 175 SMK, the bullet is loose in the cartridge due to lack of neck tension!
I know some love the Lee Collet die but not others. I would like to stay with neck sizing as it simplifies the reloading process with apparently good results(what I have been told).
Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Dgd6mm]

Re: Lee Collette Die

Do a search on here if you haven't already. Usually problems stem from improper set up of the die for the press you are using. I have a Lee Classic Cast press and use collet dies on about 6 different cartridges without issues.

 

[BoydAllen]

Re: Lee Collette Die

To the OP, how are you setting your Collet die?

 

[xxx]

Re: Lee Collette Die

I tried to search on this forum for the Lee die without much sucess. However, there is a bunch of stuff when I searched the internet(duhhh) so I will do my due diligence and go thru this material first and if I still have issues, I will try back here. Thanks.

 

[Titan700]

Re: Lee Collette Die

Would the thick neck wall do that ? I have a7mm-08 collet die if I use lc brass I have to trim the necks.

 

[JohnKielly]

Re: Lee Collette Die

Have a look a this one: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3811211.msg36204808#msg36204808

 

[XTR]

Re: Lee Collette Die

You will have to come to your own conclusions about full length resizing. Proably after you have to borrow a mallet to get your bolt open.

If you only load for one chamber it's less of a problem, but even with all my 308s cut with the same reamer I still get sticky issues with brass that is not FL sized.

Now, at to Lee Collet dies.

I know they say that you don't want the handle to cam over on presses that have camming action; I work around that. I tried having the die bottom out before I got to the cam, but I could never get the pressure consistent to get good bullets every time. I set mine up like I'm setting a FL die to get the right shoulder bump. I set it up to cam all the way over and get no resize, then I keep moving the die down until I get the minimum I need to get consistent resizing. If you are getting grooves on the neck you are going too far and you'll break the die. If you really lean on it you will strip the threads and pop the aluminum top out of the die (haven't ever done that). Or if it's applying too much pressure the surfaces of the collet will be damaged.

The down side to this way is you have to reset it if you are using say W-W and Lapua brass, because Lapua is about .002 thicker in the neck walls the setting for Lapua is quite a bit higher.

If you can get consistent brass w/o camming then you don't have to bother with this.

My solution is that I use the Lee with my WW and a bushing die with my Lapua.

 

[bigedp51]

Re: Lee Collette Die

Buy a full length Forster die with the high mounted expander button that is supported and will not pull the case necks off center. And not mess with poorly made Lee collet dies and wondering if you pulled too hard or too little on the press handle.

Now I wonder if anyone will get torque off again.

 

[xxx]

Re: Lee Collette Die

Have a look a this one: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3811211.msg36204808#msg36204808

Thanks for the feedback guys. The above explanation was long and detailed but helpful as well.
So back to the drawing board.....

 

[loneranger04]

Re: Lee Collette Die

I'm new to this forum and to precision long range shooting but I started with a full length die (not a Forster) with an expander button and didn't find the accuracy that I wanted. A friend of mine put me on to the Lee Collet die and I've never looked back. I like that I have zero runout with the mandrel and I'm not dragging a sizing button through my necks. I'll admit that I cannot perfectly apply the same amount of pressure to the press handle for each pass but using my micrometer I cannot see any difference. Accuracy is good to excellent (depending probably on me). It seems to me, as someone else put it, that as long as you get enough pressure on the neck to close it tight against the mandrel then the neck tension should be the same from case to case. I do know that my rifles shoot better with brass that has been necked sized and not full length sized. I've read a lot of arguments and frankly we precision shooters are probably too anal about some things that don't amount to a hill of beans but it takes a lot of trial and error to find out what works best then it's like a religion, you follow those steps each time so that you have the confidence to make the shot. I like the Lee Collet die enough that I have a backup so when I do pop the top off I can just keep on loading.

 

[BoydAllen]

Re: Lee Collette Die

One more little thing that you fellows might find useful is that you can combine the use of a body die (set for proper shoulder bump) with a collet die (I found that doing the neck first gave better results.) and end up with very good ammo that solves the problem that will eventually catch up to you neck sizing alone.....a hard bolt close. Several members of this forum have given good reports on this process. BTW it is not the expander balls that cause the problem with one piece dies, but rather that the IDs of the neck portion of the dies are way too small. If an expander only has say .001 of expanding to do, it does not mess up the case at all.

 

[Joe R]

Re: Lee Collette Die

xxx said:

Hi all. I have been shooting and reloading for AR's for quite some time with good success. Now I have a .308 bolt gun and am TRYING to reload using the neck sizing only method with the die listed above and having the dickens of a time getting it right. I am using .308 LC Match brass.
Initially, using my once shot brass(shot thru my rifle), I couldn't get the brass to feed into the die. Someone suggested that I play with the "prongs" inside the die. So I did that and got them to feed into the die properly.
I then charged the brass with Varget and when I attempted to seat the 175 SMK, the bullet is loose in the cartridge due to lack of neck tension!
I know some love the Lee Collet die but not others. I would like to stay with neck sizing as it simplifies the reloading process with apparently good results(what I have been told).
Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

xxx,
On the bottom I am attaching a pdf article by John Valentine giving a very good explanation of the LCD (Lee Collet Die). YMMV.

Joe

PS The LC brass because is so hard has more spring-back, so anneal and when resizing I give it 5 seconds of dwell time.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Re: Lee Collette Die

Hi all. I have been shooting and reloading for AR's for quite some time with good success. Now I have a .308 bolt gun and am TRYING to reload using the neck sizing only method with the die listed above and having the dickens of a time getting it right. I am using .308 LC Match brass.
Initially, using my once shot brass(shot thru my rifle), I couldn't get the brass to feed into the die. Someone suggested that I play with the "prongs" inside the die. So I did that and got them to feed into the die properly.
I then charged the brass with Varget and when I attempted to seat the 175 SMK, the bullet is loose in the cartridge due to lack of neck tension!
I know some love the Lee Collet die but not others. I would like to stay with neck sizing as it simplifies the reloading process with apparently good results(what I have been told).
Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

I'll take a different tack here and suggest that the bold text above is your issue. I use a LCD for neck tension, but I always FL-size (minus the neck) my brass every firing for consistency.

 

[Joe R]

Re: Lee Collette Die

xxx,
I overlooked that you're talking about an AR. I believe Mr. Jay Christopherson hit the bullseye. He wins the prize today.

 

[thefitter]

Re: Lee Collette Die

I'll take a different tack here and suggest that the bold text above is your issue. I use a LCD for neck tension, but I always FL-size (minus the neck) my brass every firing for consistency.

Bingo!

 

[DJEinConcord]

Re: Lee Collette Die

Hi all. I have been shooting and reloading for AR's for quite some time with good success. Now I have a .308 bolt gun and am TRYING to reload using the neck sizing only method with the die listed above and having the dickens of a time getting it right. I am using .308 LC Match brass.
.....Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

You must set the die up carefully. I have mine on a cheap Lee press that cams over center beautifully with 308 Lapua brass that holds an inch at 200.

Read this post: http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?49899-Lee-Collet-Die-Adjustment&s=71a74f7a7d4c22c64e0f94b65614340a&p=389937#post389937

It is the best description of the Lee collet die I have seen. It works well for me because I have it set up to the tension I need as the die just cams over center. The handle stops at the stop notch on the press making repeatable tension effortless. It stops sizing at the top of the press stroke then the handle snaps into place when the press reaches the top of the stroke. The handle stays there at the top of the stroke a few degrees over center. You will feel the handle gently snap into place on its own.

It repeatedly produces the same neck tension each time. Beautifully. Once you get it set up like that, small adjustments can be made. It does not take much pressure to resize the neck. Once you get set like that do not change it for that whole batch of brass to ensure consistency.

Most people set them up wrong, usually with way too much pressure. Easy does it. Those collets are stronger that they look.

 

[ericbc7]

Re: Lee Collette Die

Don't worry about the cam over with the Lee collet die. Get an undersized mandrel -.001 and set up the die with hornady ring to cam over with light pressure. It is repeatable and puts the defects to the outside of the neck. Body size the brass with redding dies and trim after body sizing. If you neck turn use the redding fl bushing dies and skip the collet die.

 

[918v]

You need to understand how the collet works: the case goes inside the collet, the shell holder pushes on the collet, the collet moves up against an angled sleeve which closes the collet against the neck. The neck is reduced in diameter until it bottoms out against the decapping rod.

If you set up the die so that the neck walls do not bottom out against the decapping rod, then you will not achieve the correct amount of neck tension.

I set up my LCND so that my press cannot cam over. I set the die so low that my press is way past he cam over point. I pull on the handle until I feel the case neck walls bottom out against the decapping rod. I don't put a lot of pressure on it because I don't want to thin out the brass. Believe me, this die is strong enough to extrude virgin Lapua necks. I once made one grow .030" in length by applying too my h pressure. LC is much harder and easier to work with using this die.

I know this is contrary to Lee's instructions but is the only way to assure consistent neck tension with variable thickness necks.

 

[BoydAllen]

Actually, I believe that the way that you do it is the way that they say to. We who very, very lightly cam over are the contrarians. In the past, when I was much less experienced (and more than a bit more ham fisted) I set my dies for a lot of cam over force, and like many, made ribbed necks, and flattened the end of one sleeve against the shell holder. Older now and wiser, I know that if you want more neck tension, you need to reduce the diameter of the decapping mandrel, or order a new one that is smaller from Lee. Once the ID of the neck touches the stem, you have all that you are going to get with that mandrel. Generally, my first advice to new collet die owners is to take the top off of the die and remove the stem and tapered part that the collet is closed by, so that they can better understand how the die works. I knew one "engineer" who set the die up so that the sleeve just touched the shell holder with the ram at the top of its stroke, and wondered why his bullet fell into his cases. The second thing that I tell new owners is not to operate the die without a case in place. The third is to read the blankety blank directions, because the collet die is unique, and works differently than any other die on the market.

 

[thefitter]

...read the blankety blank directions...

What a concept!!