Lee collet die Vs expander mandrel

[moe africa]

Hi all
I've been looking at methods to improve my consistency in teck tension, considering the following methods
1. Fl bushing die without bushing and use Lee collet die
2. Fl bushing die + expander mandrel
3. Method one + expander mandrel

 

[chromatica]

I use a Wilson FL die with a bushing for sizing and decapping. After cleaning the brass, I run it through a Lee Collet die. I find this technique gives me consistent neck tension.

 

[Rocketvapor]

The collet die sizes down and brass springs back larger.
That's why most use undersize mandrels.
Forgiving for a wider range of neck thickness.

An expander mandrel the brass is sized up and springs back down a little.
Also forgiving for neck thickness (bushings aren't).

Annealing fired cases before sizing reduces this spring back some and maybe a little more consistent.

 

[RegionRat]

Are you also also paying attention to....

Keeping your brass batches matched? (Their history, the cycle counts, annealing, the chamfer process, lube or no lube, sorted for internal volume or overall weight, etc? )

 

[jepp2]

I've been looking at methods to improve my consistency in teck tension

Annealing every firing will result in the most uniform neck tension of the 3 methods you list for sizing.

I've used all 3 methods you list (although I avoid using bushings as much as possible). Another method I use is honing my necks on my FL sizing dies. With the LCD's, I use undersize mandrels on all of them. I know I could sand down the mandrels, but I just find purchasing undersize mandrels as a preferred solution.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Collet dies are fine for tightening necks if more tension is needed, otherwise a good FL die and a mandrel will give fine results. I'm not keen on the 3 marks left from the Lee die if excessive movement of the neck is needed. I only load 2 calibres with bushing dies, 223 ( Redding) and 6SLR (Whidden) otherwise my 308 is a Forster and 6 BR, Redding. My mandrels are Wilson and Sinclair. You do neck turn, right?

 

[moe africa]

Collet dies are fine for tightening necks if more tension is needed, otherwise a good FL die and a mandrel will give fine results. I'm not keen on the 3 marks left from the Lee die if excessive movement of the neck is needed. I only load 2 calibres with bushing dies, 223 ( Redding) and 6SLR (Whidden) otherwise my 308 is a Forster and 6 BR, Redding. My mandrels are Wilson and Sinclair. You do neck turn, right?

Not currently
I'm still in uni and I try to purchase the items that make the biggest impact first
I don't know if neck turning would result in a huge gain in a howa 6.5 creed with lapua brass

 

[22BRGUY]

I like Redding body die, then collet die, then expander mandrel
If you want to bring the diameter of the decapping rod down a little,
400 grit sandpaper with the decapping rod spun in a drill can do that easily.

 

[Murray Brook]

Lee Collet die, Redding body die and a good seating die (Forster) will give you good RO #'s for the money. JMO

 

[moe africa]

Lee Collet die, Redding body die and a good seating die (Forster) will give you good RO #'s for the money. JMO

Currently stuck with a hornady match die set
Waiting on a lee collet die set

 

[Murray Brook]

If the Hornady die set is a FL bushing die then just remove the bushing and it becomes a body die, and by the way the Lee seater die that comes with the Collet set isn't as good as a Forster or Redding but is still pretty good. JMO

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Not currently
I'm still in uni and I try to purchase the items that make the biggest impact first
I don't know if neck turning would result in a huge gain in a howa 6.5 creed with lapua brass

It probably will not. My experience of Howa's is pretty good ( I have a Grendel Mini rifle). The neck diameter will be SAAMI to accomodate factory rounds. So...good loading practices, good brass and good bullets will probably be all you need to do to get a decent result. And save for a replacement barrel. I know some good shooters that use Howa actions as a base for a very competitive rifle. I guess that you are in touch with the Impact Shooting guys in SA?

 

[moe africa]

It probably will not. My experience of Howa's is pretty good ( I have a Grendel Mini rifle). The neck diameter will be SAAMI to accomodate factory rounds. So...good loading practices, good brass and good bullets will probably be all you need to do to get a decent result. And save for a replacement barrel. I know some good shooters that use Howa actions as a base for a very competitive rifle. I guess that you are in touch with the Impact Shooting guys in SA?

It's given me some pretty consistent .6 moa groups with 9 rounds
Impact shooting is on the other side of the country
Learn a lot from his videos
Barrel changes are a huge problem down here

 

[NZ_Fclass]

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[moe africa]

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eaglebarrels.co.za

Rifle Barrels

The onestop shop for hunters, sportsmen and wildlife. Supplier Arms, Ammunition and related products Producers of the SABI Custom and Standard grade rifles Importer of KRIEGHOFF Hunting Guns and K80 Shotguns Importer of RECKNAGEL Scopemount, Sights and Gunmakers Accesories Offering of...

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Yeah
Once you buy the barrel you license it for about 6-8 months
Then once that is approved you send your gun smith who applies for a firearm alteration
A year if you're lucky and then only then can you use the rifle with your new barrel

 

[mikecr]

Unless you can measure tension you won't know.
But I like option #2 bushing die + expander mandrel.

I would avoid FL sizing of necks like a plague. Otherwise you'll bring donut thickness and shoulder angles into play which will increase tension variance. Better to partial length size necks no more than seated bullet bearing.
And with everything, reducing added energies reduces variances in response. So to get the lowest tension variance you would size necks barely more than natural springback, and load develop with that.

 

[boltman13]

I have had great results with my Creedmoors using the old Lee Collet Die that sizes the entire neck and the Redding Body die every third firing. I seat bullets with a Wilson micrometer die. That said I have switched to a Whidden Click adjustable full length bushing die for case sizing and my results are just as good with less time required on the third resizing and only slightly more time on the first two. I was noticing slightly harder chambering after the first Collet resizing and slightly more after the second, but really no loss of accuracy in my 2 F-Class rifles. YMMD. Good Luck.

 

[Timon]

Before I begin anything, I anneal the brass after each firing. I also turn the necks and I use only Lapua brass. For sizing I use a Whidden FL click adjustable busing sizing die. After sizing, I trim the cases to make sure they are all the same length. Then I use a 21st Century expansion die and mandrels to open the necks back up to where I want them. I think that it is very important, both during sizing and using the expansion mandrel, that you hold the press in place for at least a few seconds to give the brass a chance to adjust to its new size. I do check each neck with gage pins, to ensure the neck is exactly where I want it, before seating a bullet. For seating, I use an arbor press, with an in line die. I really think that the arbor press with the in line die will give the best seating results. I do use a molly dry lube on the cases before I begin expansion, then I re-apply before seating. I have found using these methods give me very repeatable results with consistent neck tension.