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Lee collet die set up?

OK guys just got three collet dies for my 223,204,243. I have heard so much about the great results guys are having with them so i need to get my feet wet. How about some input as to the proper set up and operation of the LCD. The tech at Lee said i shouldn't run the ram up all the way and i should work off of feel. I'm not understanding how it could be so consistent if you not completing a full stroke of the handle and stopping short by feel??? Any hints,tips, or advise is much appreciated.

Thank You
Ryan
 
READ THE INSTRUCTIONS....

If you don't have any, visit Leeprecision.com (I think) & get them. They are kinda sorta critical to the proper opeation & set up of the Collet NS dies.

Or you'll end up mushrooming the brass right a the base of the shoulder.

Don't ask me how I know that.

Depth on the NS Collet dies is kinda critical. Experiment a little & measure your case mouth opening. The press stroke needs to stop at the press stops (unless it does a cam-over) and not a maximum pressure on the collet or brass.
After you screw up a few pieces of brass you'll be a pro. They do work great.

Have fun.
 
I setup my LCD to allow for a slight cam-over so that I can use the same stroke every time. When the die is working, it looks like you aren't doing hardly anything to the brass. If you start to see impressed finger marks on the neck, you have too much contact (IMO).
 
jaychris said:
I setup my LCD to allow for a slight cam-over so that I can use the same stroke every time. When the die is working, it looks like you aren't doing hardly anything to the brass. If you start to see impressed finger marks on the neck, you have too much contact (IMO).
I do it much the same way. I used some Flitz and emery cloth to polish the mandrel diameter down (then polished with Flitz and steel wool) so it gives the desired size when I hit the 'stop' on my Co-Ax press. Effort exerted on the press handle is minimal.
 
jaychris said:
I setup my LCD to allow for a slight cam-over so that I can use the same stroke every time. When the die is working, it looks like you aren't doing hardly anything to the brass. If you start to see impressed finger marks on the neck, you have too much contact (IMO).
During initial setup how many turns are u screwing the die in and what type of press are u using.
 
this is making a simple thing hard..follow the lee instructions and be done with it..works great
 
Follow the instructions from Lee! Using any stop feature on the press to limit stroke will defeat the design of the die, it stops at the right place all by itself! It takes very little movement to close the collet and neck against the mandrel. You don't need as much pressure on the press handle as you do for FL sizing dies.
 
Hi 1hole,Hi all

The simplest way to set your LCD is,as suggested by Lee themselves,to ask for a special mandrel,tighter than the original one if this isn't good enough for you,or do it yourself with 400and 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper and a drill,conrolling regularly with a mic,and doing 3/4 of the length of the mandrel from the decapping pin;WD40 or similar is helpful as lubricant.Once your mandrel is as you want it,setting the die should be done on "tip toes" sort of,being careful not to overtighten the die.In the end don't exert too much strength on that press lever or you'll maim your brass necks(little vertical ridges,been there,done that),even if it has no bad influence on accuracy.
 
Im just confused by the tech from Lee. He said not to complete a full stroke on the ram but to go off feel. When i set it per specs with one full turn past shellholder contact i can complete a full stroke but do see some collet marks on the case neck. Should i be stopping before the fullstroke is complete or should i be completing the stroke. Everybody is stating read the instructions but no where does it state to not complete a full stroke in the instructions.
 
Screw the die in deeper so you cannot complete a full stroke if you have a cam over press like I do (RCII). When you feel pressure on the stroke, stop, it has done it's job. After you have done a few, you will be able to feel it happen. Do one as I recommended. Take a bullet and see if the neck has been sized by placing the base into the neck. Do this a few times and you will be confident that you have the die and the stroke set properly. If you press too hard on the stroke you can blow the top out of the die that's why they don't recommend that you cam over.
 
I have a Rockchucker press that cams over at the top as we all know. This cam over feature is not needed and can be very detrimental to the die if not precisely set up. Why bother? Simply raise the ram to the top, screw the collet die in until it contacts the shellholder then lower the ram and turn the die further in 2 or 3 complete turns. This will create a direct push from the handle to the case neck. You will actually feel the brass compress around the mandrel. It requires firm but not excessive force. Dismantle the new die before using to clean and degrease then polish the interior of the collet around the grooves to remove any burrs leftover from the machining. For factory chambers and unturned brass it is amazing. It will transfer any inconsistencies in the case neck wall to the outside resulting in excellent concentricity and very consistent neck tension. The results will speak for themselves on the target.
 
With a LCD I use a washer that I slip over the case to stop the die about 3/16 inch before it hits the shell holder. That gives me a little bit of unsized neck to center the case in my SAAMI chambered .260. I also size once, rotate the case 90 degrees and size again. I like the result.
 
1holeaddict said:
Im just confused by the tech from Lee. He said not to complete a full stroke on the ram but to go off feel. When i set it per specs with one full turn past shellholder contact i can complete a full stroke but do see some collet marks on the case neck. Should i be stopping before the fullstroke is complete or should i be completing the stroke. Everybody is stating read the instructions but no where does it state to not complete a full stroke in the instructions.

The collet marks on the case neck are called 'gather' marks and are perfectly normal. They are 'proof' that the neck has been sized and do not interfere with the performance of your ammo. If however you want to reduce them anyways, turn the case 1/8th of a turn (45 degress) and run the case into the collet a second time.
 
1holeaddict said:
Im just confused by the tech from Lee. He said not to complete a full stroke on the ram but to go off feel. When i set it per specs with one full turn past shellholder contact i can complete a full stroke but do see some collet marks on the case neck. Should i be stopping before the fullstroke is complete or should i be completing the stroke. Everybody is stating read the instructions but no where does it state to not complete a full stroke in the instructions.

The stroke IS complete when the collet has closed the neck up tight to the collet. There are no external visual indications that sizing is complete. The only thing you have to go by is how the press lever feels. Once the shellholer contacts the collet there is a very short squishy feel during sizing then the lever gets hard immediately. There is no need to continue the stroke beyond this point nor to use the full travel of the ram.
Smaller calibers like those mentionned in the OP require even less effort to collet size. Screwing the die down 2 or 3 or more turns as mentionned in other posts will improve the feel for what is happening. Once you get the feel for it there will be no turning back. Have fun.
 
So are you wanting info on the Factory Crimp Die or Neck Sizing Die? They are both collet dies and they take very little effort to work properly. I use 2 fingers for neck sizing. One would assume I'm not doing anything.
 
Have you taken one of your dies apart to see how it works? The part under the cap with an angled surface on its bottom, interfaces with the angled top of the collet, so that its fingers are forced inward, pinning the case neck to the mandrel. Once it reaches that condition, with the neck pinned against the mandrel, about all you will accomplish with further pressure is to create ribs on the outside of the neck where the splits in the collet are. One thing to make sure of is that you do not operated the die without a case in place. If you do, it will deform the collet so that an unsized case neck will not easily slip between the collet and mandrel. The point of Lee's prescribed method is that as long as you raise the ram till yo meet solid resistance, you will have sized the neck. Any variation in pressure beyond what is needed to do that is like pushing down on your desk top with your hand by variable amounts. It is of no consequence as far as the height of the desk above the floor goes. Change in neck tension is achieved by changing the diameter of the mandrel. I will say that I have operated LCDs by setting them up to very lightly toggle at the top of the stroke, and that method has worked just fine...for me, but in getting to that point of enlightenment, I managed to make the mistake of using a die with way too much toggle (using that well established principle that if some is good, more is better, and too much is just right) producing ribbed case necks, and in one case seriously deforming the bottom of a collet, where it came in contact with the shell holder. This was decades back, when I knew a lot less about reloading, and was in a more ham fisted stage. You can toggle, if your cases have reasonably uniform neck thickness, and set up to do it ever so lightly, almost not at all, but I can assure you that my friend who screws his die into his Rockchucker till he can't, Like the directions specify, and tries to apply the same 25 lb. of force at the point where the handle stops, gets excellent results. I have even seen pictures of one fellow's press that he modified so that he uses a torque wrench instead of the handle, when using a LCDs, but as I said, I believe that once the minimum pressure is achieved, variations in pressure above that are inconsequential. Given the variations that I have observed in shooters' mechanical sense, I believe that Lee has taken the proper approach with their directions, and that the only problem is in the head of the reloaders who have a problem with the idea of the ram not topping out, because in every other press operation it does. As it turns out, in this instance, the problem lies entirely within their heads, and has nothing to do with the results achieved.
 
addict, I believe the Lee tech guy was cautioning you not to set the die so that the collet was fully compressed on initial set-up. As many have said, the short paragraph in the Lee instructions is concise and easy to follow. Screw the die in until the extended collet just touches the shellholder with the press ram at the top of its travel, then screw the die about 1/8 turn. That should do it. New users are expecting more to happen and it doesn't. Mic your case before, mic it after and you'll set it is correct.
 
I tried to follow the " go off the feel" advice which completely confounded me until I used freshly annealed brass. The smallest diameter cases I have used the collet neck sizer on have been 6.5's but I get plenty of tactile feed back from them as they are being resized. My problems before arose from trying to neck size cases that had been fired and resized more than once before.
 
I will say that I have operated LCDs by setting them up to very lightly toggle at the top of the stroke, and that method has worked just fine...for me, but in getting to that point of enlightenment, I managed to make the mistake of using a die with way too much toggle...You can toggle, if your cases have reasonably uniform neck thickness, and set up to do it ever so lightly, almost not at all,

That's how I set mine up too. The press cams over but it's very light. Practically just the weight of the handle dropping is enough to size the neck.
 
Read the posting by J. Valentine in the link below, this is the method I use and I want to remind all of you that none of you have an adjustment knob on your elbow to set your arms foot pounds of force.

A mechanical stop of the press is uniform and always applies the same force to the collet. Second if you are leaving "gather marks" or "ribbed case necks" you are applying so much force to the collet you are causing the brass to flow.

Unless you have a fantastic sense of feel or if you have been assimilated by the Borg and have a torque wrench attached to the end of your arm then please read below.


Lee Collet Die Adjustment (from Benchrest Central)

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?49899-Lee-Collet-Die-Adjustment

As a side note the last time this subject came up I took a photo of my Rock Chucker press and my torque wrench fastened to the press handle with string and duct tape. Kenny474 had "properly" attached a click adjustable torque wrench to his press and I decided to poke a little fun. ;D

One more silly question.............

What do you have to do to make the stupid handle thingamabob "click" at the correct collet pressure. ::)

torquepress_zpsdad5e907.jpg


Sorry the Devil (BoydAllen) made me do it. ;D

bozo699 said:
Now I absolutly don't care who you are thats way funny ;D :D ;) :) as a matter of a fact its the funniest thing I have ever seen on this site. Thanks for making him do it BoydAllen.
Wayne.

bozo699 said:
Kenny,
I am sorry I just can't stop laughing my a@# off with the old style torque wrench with duck tape and string holding it on ;D Now no one is making fun of you, but it is right down funny. My wife hates this site(it takes time away from her) and she even had to laugh when I couldn't quit laughing she had to see what it was all about.

zillla said:
I don't care who ya R. That there's funneee..

Kenny474 said:
That is seriously funny there
 

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