Lee collet die or Redding s neck sizer

[slurpin dog]

Thanks.
What if any case length issues do you see ?
Any resistance to bolt closure ?

This is neck sizing only, does not resize the body. If you get bolt resistance, you will need to bump the shoulder.

 

[!Peter!]

If you're leaving collet marks then you're using too much force.
Also try turning the brass 1/4 turn for 2 neck sizes as it improves concentricity and only takes s second or two more.

Thanks for the advice but I'm well aware of the effect of too much force and turning brass 1/4 turn, and Valentine's instructions which seem to always comes up whenever LCD is mentioned.

I have also deburred the collet fingers etc.

 

[Homerange]

This is neck sizing only, does not resize the body. If you get bolt resistance, you will need to bump the shoulder.

Yeah I know to both. Slight resistance won't matter a damn if you keep the lugs lubed.
But with LCD's the need to bump is actually much less than imagined.
Everyone says you'll get into case length issues but with the common calibers and 'normal' loads I've not needed to bump any cases back to get the bolts to close with only gentle effort.

IMO a LCD used properly helps to maintain case datum rather than let them grow until bolt closure is difficult.
Quiz:
How do you reckon it can do that ?

 

[Chief 101]

Forum search finds plenty of mentions and I think this is the first time I saw it:
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/lee-collet-die-experience.3885018/#post-36644901

I saved these instructions this time, got to say I get good results using this method. Thanks

 

[Fotheringill]

From memory to minimize runout with bushing dies Redding recommends to not to size the neck diameter buy more 3 thou in a single step.

FWIW, I full length size with a type s die with a bushing to size 2 thou over final neck diameter then use a LCD to give final diameter. I found this also reduced the marks that the LCD leaves on the outside of the neck.

I just saw a video of a Redding rep on You Tube at a show or some such stating that Redding found that using a bushing .001 less gave better results that .002 or .003 less.

 

[!Peter!]

I just saw a video of a Redding rep on You Tube at a show or some such stating that Redding found that using a bushing .001 less gave better results that .002 or .003 less.

I'm not referring to the the final neck diameter but how much you change the diameter in a single step.

 

[normmatzen]

Dan S,
I originally bought the custom bushing full length die from some one (Can't remember who) who machines a custom die from a Redding die.
I replaced it with a custom collet die from LEE. You send them a couple fired cases with bullets you will be using and they send you a custom collet die and a custom seating die designed for your bullet, all at a VERY reasonable price. I adjust the neck tension by using LEE custom mandrels that cost $10 or less each.

 

[Davidb187]

Dan S,
I originally bought the custom bushing full length die from some one (Can't remember who) who machines a custom die from a Redding die.
I replaced it with a custom collet die from LEE. You send them a couple fired cases with bullets you will be using and they send you a custom collet die and a custom seating die designed for your bullet, all at a VERY reasonable price. I adjust the neck tension by using LEE custom mandrels that cost $10 or less each.

5$/mandrel undersize
10$/mandrel oversize

 

[OLEJOE]

I use the LCD because it sizes the ID of the necks and smooths the inside neck finish. I also bump the shoulder back with a bushing FL die without the bushing. I have not checked the run out so I can’t comment on that but the inconsistent seating depth has all but disappeared.

 

[dgeesaman]

IMO a LCD used properly helps to maintain case datum rather than let them grow until bolt closure is difficult.
Quiz:
How do you reckon it can do that ?

I reckon it’s because it grips the brass firmly before the ram is fully “up”, thus pushing down on the neck.

David

 

[Hondo64d]

Would or had anybody used the lee collet die over a Redding s neck bushing die

I’ve had great luck with LCDs in .260 and .308. Wonderfully straight loads. Oddly, the only LCD that is giving me less than satisfactory results is the 6.5x47 Lapua one that I had to have Lee custom make for me. Noticeably more runout than with my Harrell’s FL bushing die.

I dunno...

John

 

[Homerange]

I reckon it’s because it grips the brass firmly before the ram is fully “up”, thus pushing down on the neck.

David

Yes but add to that what actuates the collet die, ie. the pressing forces applied to the collet by the shoulder of the case. These parts of a case while they work harden are somewhat thinner than the rest of the case so only minuscule corrections for case growth are required to keep brass short enough to chamber with minimal effort.
That's my theory anyway......others ?

 

[JimSC]

Completed my little test yesterday and was a bit surprised by the results. I only tested 2 methods instead of 3 but did 20 rounds each. First method was the Redding full length bushing die with expander ball and depinning rod removed. The second was using a Redding body die with a .291 bushing followed up by the Lee collet.

Cases were Peterson small rifle .260 Remington on their 4th reload. Cases were prepped by depriming with a universal depinner, given a three hour wet spin with stainless pins then annealed. After annealing twenty were lubed and sized using each method then given a 15 minute spin in walnut to remove the lube. After the cleaning I trimmed them to 2.025 then necks deburred inside and out. Powder was added and 120 SMK's were seated using a Redding micrometer seater. All dies were cleaned with electrical contact cleaner and a microfiber cloth. Lee collet was adjusted uisng the instructions here http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/lee-collet-die-experience.3885018/#post-36644901

I checked the concentricity using a Hornady Concentrity tool with the .0005 dial indicator. The tool was cleaned with contact cleaner where the base and bullet rides. Each cartridge was wiped with a microfiber cloth before it was checked. I insert the cartridge and check for runout by rotating the case in 90 degree increments while holding the "bullet" end of the holder to prevent rotation of the tool. If the runout was .0005 or less it passed. If greater than .001 I removed the cartridge, marked the "high" spot with a sharpie then rotated 90 degrees in the tool and checked a second time and a third time.

results - FL Redding bushing 45 % came out with runout of less than .0005 with a extreme of .00175. Using the body die with the Lee 25% were less than .0005 with a extreme of .002. I was able to tweak the runout on all of them back to less than .0005 with the Hornady tool. Most cases using both methods hovered around .001 to .0015 runout.

Take the results for what they are, a minimal test which need to be confirmed by other testers. Later on I may try just using the Lee neck die without body sizing first. My next step in my journey to the perfect round will be the purchase of a Wilson chamber bullet seating die and a arbor press but there is no rush

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The only results that matter are on the target. Id do the method which:
1. Gives you the most time doing something else
2. Has the best result on target.

In other words who cares if you have even .003 runout if you cant see the difference but it takes half the time to load em. Nothing else matters but the target- not chrono data, quickload data, how much a die costs, sorting bullets and primers or weighing charges to the half kernel. Once you get to the point that they matter incorporate that into your routine.

 

[Bart B.]

The only results that matter are on the target. Id do the method which:
1. Gives you the most time doing something else
2. Has the best result on target.

Well put.

'Tis easy to see and reduce physical variables in ammo. Harder with those in rifles. Variables in humans aiming and shooting rifles are something else.

 

[JimSC]

'Tis easy to see and reduce physical variables in ammo. Harder with those in rifles. Variables in humans aiming and shooting rifles are something else.

I am convinced my biggest improvements for the next year or so will come from lots of wind/mirage reading practice improving my shooting technique with lots of practice not from upgrades in my equipment or reloading practices. Most of my shooting money this year will be spent on bullets, primers, powder and and replacing the barrel on my main gun.

I love the "How Much Does It Matter" series by Cal Zant. Once you get to a certain point with equipment you start getting diminishing returns on your investment

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The way i look at it is if im shooting a ppc everything must be perfect because i can even tell a problem with a sandbag but if im shooting a sporter weight 270 for deer at 100yd im not going to sort primers, bullets, weigh powder down to .01 or even use a bushing die or turn necks. Dont even care which primers i use. Dont obsess about stuff that dont even matter. If youre tuning a load in a factory gun shooting off a lead sled with a 3x9 scope you dont need to worry about if you sorted your bullets or even if your primers are seated to the exact .001 and you dont need an fx120 scale- theres a million other things to worry about first.

 

[muleman69]

Completed my little test yesterday and was a bit surprised by the results. I only tested 2 methods instead of 3 but did 20 rounds each. First method was the Redding full length bushing die with expander ball and depinning rod removed. The second was using a Redding body die with a .291 bushing followed up by the Lee collet.

Cases were Peterson small rifle .260 Remington on their 4th reload. Cases were prepped by depriming with a universal depinner, given a three hour wet spin with stainless pins then annealed. After annealing twenty were lubed and sized using each method then given a 15 minute spin in walnut to remove the lube. After the cleaning I trimmed them to 2.025 then necks deburred inside and out. Powder was added and 120 SMK's were seated using a Redding micrometer seater. All dies were cleaned with electrical contact cleaner and a microfiber cloth. Lee collet was adjusted uisng the instructions here http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/lee-collet-die-experience.3885018/#post-36644901

I checked the concentricity using a Hornady Concentrity tool with the .0005 dial indicator. The tool was cleaned with contact cleaner where the base and bullet rides. Each cartridge was wiped with a microfiber cloth before it was checked. I insert the cartridge and check for runout by rotating the case in 90 degree increments while holding the "bullet" end of the holder to prevent rotation of the tool. If the runout was .0005 or less it passed. If greater than .001 I removed the cartridge, marked the "high" spot with a sharpie then rotated 90 degrees in the tool and checked a second time and a third time.

results - FL Redding bushing 45 % came out with runout of less than .0005 with a extreme of .00175. Using the body die with the Lee 25% were less than .0005 with a extreme of .002. I was able to tweak the runout on all of them back to less than .0005 with the Hornady tool. Most cases using both methods hovered around .001 to .0015 runout.

Take the results for what they are, a minimal test which need to be confirmed by other testers. Later on I may try just using the Lee neck die without body sizing first. My next step in my journey to the perfect round will be the purchase of a Wilson chamber bullet seating die and a arbor press but there is no rush

Theses little test are always interesting , Concentricity is always important weather it be hunting rifle at turkey shoot or a bench match. Lack of it is like having a tire out of balance

 

[DngBat7]

Completed my little test yesterday and was a bit surprised by the results. I only tested 2 methods instead of 3 but did 20 rounds each. First method was the Redding full length bushing die with expander ball and depinning rod removed. The second was using a Redding body die with a .291 bushing followed up by the Lee collet.

Cases were Peterson small rifle .260 Remington on their 4th reload. Cases were prepped by depriming with a universal depinner, given a three hour wet spin with stainless pins then annealed. After annealing twenty were lubed and sized using each method then given a 15 minute spin in walnut to remove the lube. After the cleaning I trimmed them to 2.025 then necks deburred inside and out. Powder was added and 120 SMK's were seated using a Redding micrometer seater. All dies were cleaned with electrical contact cleaner and a microfiber cloth. Lee collet was adjusted uisng the instructions here http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/lee-collet-die-experience.3885018/#post-36644901

I checked the concentricity using a Hornady Concentrity tool with the .0005 dial indicator. The tool was cleaned with contact cleaner where the base and bullet rides. Each cartridge was wiped with a microfiber cloth before it was checked. I insert the cartridge and check for runout by rotating the case in 90 degree increments while holding the "bullet" end of the holder to prevent rotation of the tool. If the runout was .0005 or less it passed. If greater than .001 I removed the cartridge, marked the "high" spot with a sharpie then rotated 90 degrees in the tool and checked a second time and a third time.

results - FL Redding bushing 45 % came out with runout of less than .0005 with a extreme of .00175. Using the body die with the Lee 25% were less than .0005 with a extreme of .002. I was able to tweak the runout on all of them back to less than .0005 with the Hornady tool. Most cases using both methods hovered around .001 to .0015 runout.

Take the results for what they are, a minimal test which need to be confirmed by other testers. Later on I may try just using the Lee neck die without body sizing first. My next step in my journey to the perfect round will be the purchase of a Wilson chamber bullet seating die and a arbor press but there is no rush

JimSC. Thank you for your in depth review. It is helpful

 

[JimSC]

JimSC. Thank you for your in depth review. It is helpful

welcome but as I said, everyone should run their own tests to make sure. My die could be off or I could have made a error

But it has made me feel better about the purchase of the Redding bushing die, enough so I may pick up another in .223. I am going to do a similar test my next batch of .223. Half the batch will be FL resized with a RCBS X die the other half will get necksizing only and see how they fare. If I get similar results then another bushing die will be added to my collection