LC LR 308 Brass

[Baddog0302]

A bit of a "discussion" between a few friends on Brass stamped LC LR 308. The range of opinions ranges from quality second to only Lapua, or maybe Nosler to the other end which is it is the same quality as normal LC brass, it just does not have a primer crimp
Thoughts based on known fact

 

[navyrad8r]

Hey Wayne,
I would say that the M118 LR brass is very good with minimal soring and very little prep. there is also less case to case weight variation in most samplings of the same head stamp. the more prevalent standard case that feeds the "combat" 147gr fmj M80 brass is "all over the place" and would require a larger cull to get say 100 cases that are close after processing. Since some of this "regular" brass can come out of M110, loose M14s, or the mighty M240 they may need more love to get it sexy like its sister brass (m118). In my opinion it can be every bit as good just needs more work....but it is So easy to get
cheers,
Doc

 

[stool]

i'll bite, where did you get brass marked :

LC LR 308 ???

sounds like a discussion with no brass on hand......

it is not like lapua ..it is better than ball brass.....

 

[Shynloco]

A bit of a "discussion" between a few friends on Brass stamped LC LR 308. The range of opinions ranges from quality second to only Lapua, or maybe Nosler to the other end which is it is the same quality as normal LC brass, it just does not have a primer crimp
Thoughts based on known fact

Ok..I'll bite as well. I know of and have regular .308 LC, .308 LC Match and 308 LC National Match brass. But what does "LR" stand for in the referenced brass plus why doesn't that brass have a two digit year stamp? Thx

 

[navyrad8r]

Shyn went to the man cave. LR for long range the m118 ammo that is issued for matches launching 175 smk. I checked the brass on hand and it was LC 07 LR so there was a 2 digit year stamp on the case. But no .308 on either m80 or the m118 that I have on hand. Not trying to inflict confusion sorry.
Cheers
Doc

 

[DR1586]

The earlier lots of M118LR seemed to have better brass that was is currently produced. I have some from roughly 2005 time frame and some that is stamped 2012. The older stuff is more consistent and weighs just a little less. I used some for a little while in my Palma rifle and I did not have the case capacity I wanted and was seeing pressure signs around 2900 fps. It's good brass, but no better than A lot of commercial stuff. It's not even in the same ball park as Lapua.

 

[rminut]

I believe there are several articles on German Salazar "Rifleman Blog" website stating that LC match brass used to be lot selected through inspection but that stopped in the late 60's. It has gotten to the point that nowadays LC LR brass is no different than M80 ball brass, it's the bullet and powder that make the difference between the two rounds.

I know amongst the Palma shooters i'm around there is nobody shooting LR brass and posting top scores. It's nowhere near the quality of Lapua. It's top use is probably amongst M1A shooters because M1A's kill brass.

 

[DR1586]

Gentlemen,

Lets keep in mind that M118LR is not match ammo. It is designed to serve as an OTM round for sniper rifles. That is what the government fields it for. The LC Match of old was more consistent all the way around than what is being produced today. But the quantities produced are different as well. Factory ammo is not different than 22 LR ammo, some lots are awesome, most are good and some are terrible.

 

[jsthntn247]

I have some brass stamped LC LR and it weight sorted with lower sd than my Lapua.

 

[stool]

duh..where do you get this poor info ??
the original m118 lr was very accurate and pretty fast. it was down loaded twice to allow it to be used in guns it was not designed for...op rod m14's. in the end it was shoot just as slow as m852..the 168 load.
typical usgi work...take some thing that works well and change it till it was poor....

Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm Special Ball, Long Range, MK 316 MOD 0
was all about fixing the problem......
if we have to shoot it slow so we can shoot it in all guns, how accurate can we make it ?
imr 4064 powder, fed match primer, FED MATCH BRASS and sie 175 bullet.
this was all about fixing the "mod's" done to m118 lr...
it is very accurate as was the original m118lr

Gentlemen,

Lets keep in mind that M118LR is not match ammo. It is designed to serve as an OTM round for sniper rifles. That is what the government fields it for. The LC Match of old was more consistent all the way around than what is being produced today. But the quantities produced are different as well. Factory ammo is not different than 22 LR ammo, some lots are awesome, most are good and some are terrible.

 

[Baddog0302]

Thank you all for your incite & thoughts.

 

[GotRDid]

If you can excuse the "urinary duel" between the posters in this thread, I think you will find it informative. Long, but worth the time.
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=125713&highlight=M118LR+brass
Cheers,
GotRDid.

 

[stool]

ray is an excellent source of DATA, while most of the rest are pushing OPINIONS.

lots of smoke and mirrors and little DATA ( except for ray) in that thread.

as an example if you look at the spec sheet for the new 316 175 load...you will see it specifies federal primers and brass( not lc) , imr 4064 powder and sie 175's.

If you can excuse the "urinary duel" between the posters in this thread, I think you will find it informative. Long, but worth the time.
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=125713&highlight=M118LR+brass
Cheers,
GotRDid.

 

[GotRDid]

Indeed! Ray has always been a voice of reason and informed perspective. I always read his threads/posts with keen interest.
GotRDid.

 

[Shynloco]

If you can excuse the "urinary duel" between the posters in this thread, I think you will find it informative. Long, but worth the time.
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=125713&highlight=M118LR+brass
Cheers,
GotRDid.

Personally, I find the second part of your input useful to helping others who aren't as informed. But the first part of your comments are exactly what you claim others to be doing. And remember to put down the toilet lid when your done.

 

[granite1]

I've used LC LR brass from late 90's to 2005 M118lr ammunition I acquired from the CMP. I am not qualified to rank it vs. other brands but I have had very good success loading ammo using it for my "IBA" M40, and a Savage 112 with a varmint weight barrel. I have read articles about it in which it was said to be match grade and weight sorted before loading. I have never tested the weight sorting to verify that but apparently others have so that step is not necessary I guess.

This is at 200yds with Lapua 155scenars, RL15, CCI BR2. The "IBA" has a 26" Hart 12tw barrel. I had the rifle set on sandbags on a bench. The target is a 600 reduced for 200.

 

[GotRDid]

Shynloco, please clarify. The one poster in the thread is historically obnoxious and obtuse even in the face of facts refuting his expertise, but I will not comment on his identity. I did, in fact wish to clarify that I was not attacking Ray. If I somehow contributed to the duel by commenting on the other individual, so be it. I'll flush twice.

Nice shooting there Granite1!
GotRDid.

 

[granite1]

Thank you. I would add that I have measured the thickness of this brass in the neck and some Lapua I have. It is slightly thinner than the Lapua.

 

[finnaddict]

Just a note on the LC-LR Brass.

I have a lot I am currently using with an 07 date. The H2O test reveals 55.3 grs avg. fill capacity. Out of the 50 round lot, the highest variation in weight was + 0.3grs. That was just 2 cases. The rest were all within +/- 0.2grs.

When it comes to the actual LC-LR case weight itself..... the weights vary greatly. I do however get great accuracy regardless of this factor.