• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

LC brass vs other brands??

Hi all

I'm currently loading all my 308 with LC brass and have some technical questions

From what I understand is that the LC brass has a thicker inner diameter than everything else. Thus creating more pressure and requiring lower powder per load

Am I correct in this presumption? Could someone with a ton of experience explain the difference between the LC vs other brass? Also explain it so I can understand why I should or should not use this brass. My goal is to reach out to 1000-1330 yards. Tight moa would be nice. However my ability and time to shoot is limited.

My info: savage 12f tr 308; LC brass, nosler CC 175g 42.5gr, cci primers
Thanks
 
the difference is precision.
it is good brass but not great brass.
lack of uniformity from pc to pc,,in a given lot.
like the difference in high power ammo and precision ammo,,,,
high power only requires 2 moa, this is fine for "reloaders",
but most "ammo crafters" seek 1/2 moa or better from their ammo.
 
this is a marginal round for 1000yds WITH ACCURACY......
1300yds is way too far in my opinion.
there is a reason the mil uses 300 win mag at these distances....with a 190 and now a 210(or 220??)

palma shoot these distances but there accuracy requirements are not great.

cmp/dcm is 20" at 1000yds...basically a miss on a body sized target
 
in a bolt gun the same round but with rl15 will go over 2700 fps.....with better brass more volume

the orginal m118lr is a bunch of rl15 with a sie 175 mk..and it did 2700..it was lowered to 2560 or so to run in various gas guns.
 
Stool,

cmp/dcm is 20" at 1000yds...basically a miss on a body sized target.


What does cmp/dcm mean? I undestand 20" is 2MOA at 1000

mj52
 
mj52: You will begin to realize that Mike in Co, aka stool, watches too many of the Tom Beringer sniper movies while he is toking on his medical marijuana. He has told Greg Wally, Gene Beggs, and George Ulrich that they don't know what they are doing, while chambering barrels, without doing so through the headstock :o ??? ::)
 
Stool

I do not know one single NRA XTC or Long Range sling shooter who would except a 2MOA Ammo or Rifle combination... Not one. You could barely hold the ten ring without any other errors or wind added to the scenerio.
Im a little confused about your statement in this reguard.

If my rifles shoot 1/2MOA for 20 rounds Im good. On a good day I can hold 1/2 to to 3/4MOA with iron sights at 1000 yards for elevation. So my ammo needs to be a min of 1/2MOA. At mid range 300,500 and 600 yards I can hold a little tighter an a great day. There is no advantage to me to use a telescope other than shooting faster and holding for wind. So the X count goes up most of the time.
RussT
 
Lake City 308 may be thicker than Lapua, both are thicker than W-W, Lapua Palma is heavy but the volume appears to be larger than the regular Lapua. I recently compared water volume on Lapua Palma and W-W and found that the difference was only ~1.2gr of Water.

I've shot thousands of W-W cases at long range. I can't see the difference in the Lapua and the WW on the target at 1000 yards.

Lake City brass would probably shoot just fine also; however, it requires more prep, and is usually not available to purchase new.

The biggest difference concern to me is getting a load with one of them and sticking with it because the load with one will probably not be the same as the load with the other.
 
stool said:
lack of uniformity from pc to pc,,in a given lot.

There are no lots in Lake City brass. There are eleventeen million case stamping machines running at the same time, pounding out tons an hour...

... so sorting them by headstamp date is a total waste of time - clean them, prep them, anneal them, and then sort them by weight.
 
Grand poo bah said:
Hi all



From what I understand is that the LC brass has a thicker inner diameter than everything else. Thus creating more pressure and requiring lower powder per load

Am I correct in this presumption? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My goal is to reach out to 1000-1330 yards.

You are correct. The LC has a thicker case wall, mostly where it joins the case head "web". This reduces case volume.

If you want to reach out to 1k, more muzzle velocity will be needed and a case with more volume will give you that ability along with careful powder/bullet selection.

An extra 50 fps can mean quite a few inches less "drop" at 1k. I find that I can load both Lapua and Winchester cases with enough powder to get a 175 gr bullet going 2750 to 2780 fps and not have compressed loads. With LC brass that same bullet is pretty much limited to 2700 fps without pushing the pressure limits. At least that's been my experience.

Remember, the LC .308 brass is designed to be shot primarily in "gas guns" like the M-14 and M-60 using a 147 gr bullet. The "bolt actions" used the M-118 LR in LC brass but the "new" Long Range round for Bolt actions is the MK316 Mod 0 which is loaded in Federal Cases using IMR4064 (41.75gr) with a 175 SMK. They "run" this round in the 2550 fps range and only expect <1 MOA accuracy from it at 916 meters (10.47" at 1K).
 
CatShooter said:
There are no lots in Lake City brass. There are eleventeen million case stamping machines running at the same time, pounding out tons an hour...
LC rounds have lots and sub lots marked on the Ammo can and the white boxes of 20, for the M118 LR rounds.
 
wwbrown said:
CatShooter said:
There are no lots in Lake City brass. There are eleventeen million case stamping machines running at the same time, pounding out tons an hour...
LC rounds have lots and sub lots marked on the Ammo can and the white boxes of 20, for the M118 LR rounds.

But that does not relate to the brass, like a lot number on a box of Lapua brass does.
 
As said above LC brass is good but not great . Remember the Government built the brass for durability and not reloadability. It's great in my militaries and especially my M-1's as the brass will take the abuse BUT if I were shooting long range there's better brass.
 
Rtheurer said:
Stool

I do not know one single NRA XTC or Long Range sling shooter who would except a 2MOA Ammo or Rifle combination... Not one. You could barely hold the ten ring without any other errors or wind added to the scenerio.
Im a little confused about your statement in this reguard.

If my rifles shoot 1/2MOA for 20 rounds Im good. On a good day I can hold 1/2 to to 3/4MOA with iron sights at 1000 yards for elevation. So my ammo needs to be a min of 1/2MOA. At mid range 300,500 and 600 yards I can hold a little tighter an a great day. There is no advantage to me to use a telescope other than shooting faster and holding for wind. So the X count goes up most of the time.
RussT


+1 Steve Bair
 
Civilian Marksmanship Program
www.thecmp.org/

sucsessor to the DCM.
both are/were designed to promote civilian marksmanship, via matches, ammo and guns.
cmp is the current org.
google for more

mj52 said:
Stool,

cmp/dcm is 20" at 1000yds...basically a miss on a body sized target.


What does cmp/dcm mean? I undestand 20" is 2MOA at 1000

mj52
 
i have been out of this form of shooting for probably 12 yrs maybe 15.
when i started i was told to "not waste time working on loads, spend time behind the trigger"
to me that was a joke, because practicing with mediocre ammo is a waste of practice.
so my comment is based on how i was told to do things...it's a 2moa target do not worry about "real" accurate ammo.
if things have change , good.
but the target is still 2moa....
i'm glad if the light finally came on in cmp/dcm shooting.


Rtheurer said:
Stool

I do not know one single NRA XTC or Long Range sling shooter who would except a 2MOA Ammo or Rifle combination... Not one. You could barely hold the ten ring without any other errors or wind added to the scenerio.
Im a little confused about your statement in this reguard.

If my rifles shoot 1/2MOA for 20 rounds Im good. On a good day I can hold 1/2 to to 3/4MOA with iron sights at 1000 yards for elevation. So my ammo needs to be a min of 1/2MOA. At mid range 300,500 and 600 yards I can hold a little tighter an a great day. There is no advantage to me to use a telescope other than shooting faster and holding for wind. So the X count goes up most of the time.
RussT
 
Actually the X ring is 1 MOA and the 10 ring is 2 MOA... I try like hell to shoot all X's... Pulled off a 14X Clean at Perry this last year that got me in a shoot of with Carl Bernosky. What are the chances of winning a shoot off agains Carl the 10 or so time National Champion. None it turns out... Ha!

I didnt want to say anything until I found my notes about the LC 308 Brass vs LAPUA. Finally found A email that i had sent to a team mate about internal Volume of both. The Internal Cpacity of LCMatch 308 brass with a head stamp date of 1989 had .02 Grains less capacity than 2013 Lapua Large Primer brass that i had on hand. So that stuff was real close together and kinda suprised me. This was both Virgin Brass never sized or fired. (that is what we where loading for the NM M14s) ( Necks straightened with the same Mandrel)
This was one example and may have no bearing on your lot or headstamp so I feel its best to measure your examples yourself. Also has no bearing on the Quality of the brass with Neck thickness or run out. Just thought I would toss this out there as I thought it intresting when we tested it.
 
good shooting.
my comment was about any given "LOT" of brass.
the plants pump out tons and sometimes it gets the same headstamp..but not always.
some guys thing just because they have LC brass it is great, because it is all lake city...what a joke.
there was a post a ways back about just how much various date stamps of lc brass varied.
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
166,299
Messages
2,216,237
Members
79,554
Latest member
GerSteve
Back
Top