LC Brass 308 extractor dings

[Cecil S.]

Hello all. Newbie here. I am trying to learn to resize LC 308 to 6.5CM. Purchased 500 LC 308 for learning. I know good 6.5 brass is out there but wanted to get proficent with resizing for other projects. My question is the extractor dings are making my final product awful!!! I am using 7-08 as my first die then 6.5. (Redding Body Dies). The ding shows up as a dimple or a crease in the shoulder of the case. Are these junk or can they be fire formed out? Using a Foster press so not much effort tried rotating cases as I resized , plenty of lube. Is this the drawback of Machine Gun Brass? I did have 6 out of 20 come out perfect. Thanks Ken

 

[Delfuego]

too much lube maybe...

 

[Bart B.]

If the dings were on them when you got them....

Those dings are caused by ejected cases flung agains some metal part. Extractors don't touch case shoulders. Resize then shoot them, they'll press out. Good enough for plinking ammo. Not so good for best accuracy as their case heads are typically way out of square and can open up groups a half to full MOA.

 

[jepp2]

My question is the extractor dings are making my final product awful!!!

Extractor dings or brass dings during ejection? If you could post some good quality close up pictures of what you are encountering, it would help greatly in assisting you.

 

[Rsadams]

too much lube maybe...

+1

 

[Cecil S.]

Thanks for responding. Dings from extraction yes some are worse then others. I will get pictures up.

 

[Shynloco]

Ken,
If they are small round dings, I'd say that is too much lube. Contact with a flat surface during extraction doesn't cause such a little crater looking formations on the shoulders. Just my .02 worth based upon my experiences reloading and shooting a variety of calibers. That includes using LC Brass (Match, National Match as well as regular) in a bolt gun as well as in an AR10.

Alex

 

[r bose]

Also, make sure the hole in the side of your die that lets air escape during the upstroke isn't clogged with lube or dirt.

 

[Shynloco]

Also, make sure the hole in the side of your die that lets air escape during the upstroke isn't clogged with lube or dirt.

Certainly a possibility, but then your brass would display the "ding" when it comes out of the die and before reloading and firing.

Alex

 

[Cecil S.]

Here are the before and after photos. I lightly wipe lube with my fingers (not much) then 7-08 die to begin sizing 6.5CM to finish. Both dies are Redding Body Dies.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

That's not a lube problem in my opinion. It looks more like a case failure during resizing. I'm not sure I would shoot these. Did they appear before or after the 7-08 die usage?

 

[SheepDog]

If you blow that picture up it appears that all but one of the shoulder dents started as a lube dent in the shoulder.
I would clean the dies our with solvent and use minimal lube after firing those rounds. There doesn't appear to be any creases in those cases that will cause problems in their use.

 

[jsn]

If the same 7 pieces of brass in the first pic are the same 7 pieces in the second pic, in the same order, the dings already in the brass you purchased would appear to be the cause of the "belly button" formed in sizing.

Without some measurements I can't tell what they fired in (MG, semi-auto, bolt gun).

If I were in your shoes, right now, I would look at using either a Trim die from RCBS or a Form and Trim die from Redding. Both are designed to bring the brass back to basic dimensions before the final FL sizing operation. This might push the ding in properly before attempting to form to another case.

Or scrap the experiment and purchase some new brass to try it with.

Both options are about equally painful, but you are where you are.

 

[Shynloco]

That's not a lube problem in my opinion. It looks more like a case failure during resizing. I'm not sure I would shoot these. Did they appear before or after the 7-08 die usage?

+1..not from lube. No way would I use those no matter the cause. But I'm unclear if they looked like that when you received them or if they looked like that after running them through whatever die you used. I've resized hundreds (if not thousands) of .308 LC brass and never had one look like that. Those look to me like they were bounced off something other than the ground. Someone may have used one of those "catch brass" contraptions and the brass, while hot, struck a part of it. I've seen some really ugly brass catchers some use just to keep from having to pick up brass - cleaver idea, but STUPID design.

Alex

 

[Lone Hunter]

1st picture looks like .308. 2nd pic looks like 7-08 after resizing. I think it is something you are doing while resizing. I have had dents before and they did not dimple like that. But I was not sizing down either. Try cleaning your die then use some Imperial Sizing Lube very lightly and see if it doesn't help. Are these pictures 308 to 7/08 or 308-7/08-6.5 C? I agree with Turbulent Turtle. That looks like case failure and no way would I shoot those. You might want to try to anneal your brass before all your sizing. I believe it would be a lot less aggravating to just go buy new or once fired brass...

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Did they appear before or after the 7-08 die usage?

I should have said "after the 7-08 die usage or after the 6.5 CM die usage." My guess is after the second die use, after the 6.5CM.

 

[Richard Coody]

Try trimming before you start resizing. Maybe that long neck is bottoming out in the die and putting pressure on the shoulder.

You are moving that shoulder back quite a bit. LC brass is about the hardest out there. Could be it just doesn't want to form the new shoulder. Annealing might help.

Neck turning will be required. That old shoulder brass is now part of the neck.

Throw your first attempt in the trash

 

[Cecil S.]

Thanks everyone for your replies. The first picture is the cases before sizing, the second is after 6.5. The dents are in the brass from the start. I would not shoot any of the cases with a crease in it (scrap) I am trying to learn the art of resizing and it seems that I am seeing the result of even the slightest dent in very thick brass. Would you all agree? (Sorry Newbie question) I just picked up a Bench Source Annealer (From the Forum) and will try softening the neck/shoulder area to see if the dimple can be controlled. I have managed 6 good cases. Not a great average even for a "Rookie". Ken

 

[GrocMax]

Maybe try an incremental 'baby steps' sizing scheme on say 3 units. Make smaller changes and don't try to get it all formed in two press strokes.

A malleable material tube will try to fold when under compression. it may just be a simple matter of too far too soon.

 

[KMart]

Hello all. Newbie here. Is this the drawback of Machine Gun Brass? I did have 6 out of 20 come out perfect. Thanks Ken

If I were trying this operation, I would start by getting the brass back to its intended size....308 Win...using a small base die if possible. Then progress to a 7-08, making sure you set the shoulder back as far as possible with that die.
Your next step is the one that causes me trouble every time. You are trying to move the shoulder back about .070 and change the shoulder angle from 20* to 30* all at the same time. I end up with something that looks like yours.
After the 7-08 die, you may be able to use a 260 Remington die to get you a little more head start. Get a spare correct shell holder and take the top side down about .030. That should help a little.
The best tool I have found is a specially made die with various sized changeable cones that you can easily size down a 308 case to a 6br in about one stroke. it is made by PBike on this site and sometimes he can be hard to get a hold of.
Even after you successfully shorten the shoulder to the correct length, you are going to have to cut/trim the necks to the correct length and turn the necks enough to have the loaded round neck .002 smaller than your chamber neck.
It is fun to try and do this just to see if you can. But in the end, it is cheaper and faster just to buy CM brass. Spend those hours shooting and reloading instead of making brass and buying new tools. Ken

PS Been there done that.