Lathe installation

[Tozguy]

This is not exactly a gunsmith question but some of you who do gunsmithing might wish to comment on the question.

I am planning to install a 12 x 36 gear head lathe in my garage and would like to know if the floor is adequate. The lathe weighs close to 1000 lbs including the cabinet stand. I imagine that once the cabinet is full and the lathe is dressed and ready to go there will be another 200 lbs added (or more).
The floor is 30 years old. It is 3’’ thick concrete poured over 4’’ of ¾ crushed rock. The crushed rock was compacted over an excavated surface of natural sand. Drainage is excellent. The cement floor was sealed. Although the 20’ x 24’ floor slab has shrunk away from the walls leaving around a ¼’’ gap there is not a single crack anywhere on the surface of the floor. The floor has taken all kinds of car and truck parking over the years with no sign of a problem.

The floor has a light slope for drainage. The lathe stand has a large footprint and it will have to be shimmed to make it level. Is the floor adequate as is for this lathe or do I need to reinforce it somehow?

Thanks for your help. Mike

 

[Preacher]

It seems like your existing floor will be OK for that weight as it is spread around a lot.
Be sure to do a leveling job with a good high dollar machine set up level, not a hardware store woodworker level.
Your end results will be well worth it..

 

[Tozguy]

Thanks Preacher, I didn't realize that all levels are not created equal. Will do. Mike

 

[X Ring Accuracy]

As Preacher said, your floor is adequate. One idea I learned years ago, under your shims to level it, a thin slice (1/8") of lead strapping seems to minimize vibration. If you are using quality levelers, forget what I said.

 

[Tozguy]

Xring,

Thanks for your comments. Vibration IS a concern for me since the lathe will be in the basement of the house. I have never seen some lead strapping but will look for some. I was thinking of casting some lead pads from wheel weights because they would be easy to get to the required thickness. If they will also dampen vibration then that is a bonus. Good to know.

 

[Preacher]

They also make mounts with anti vibration materials already installed, and it's a good idea to use them..
I would think that any lead would be liable to change when compressed, and then you would loose the level, and heavy rubber would seem to be better for vibration problems anyways..

 

[Larryh128]

Preacher is right on the $. Quality leveler with a "hard" rubber pad attached. I might have 4 steel pads here, I'll look.

 

[Tozguy]

Sidebar comment: Back in the sixties we used rubber 'sandwiches' approx. 1/2'' thick under the feet of looms to diminish the vibration transferred to the cement floor. On occasion when enough of the 500 machines got in sync we could feel the building rock. Kinda funny to a student with a summer job but not so much fun for the building's owner.
Back to lathes, I am very interested in anything that would isolate vibration without changing dimension, be it lead, rubber, wood, or anything else that works. There might even be an advantage to using a combination of materials. Any additional details that you might wish to provide would be appreciated.

 

[Larryh128]

Some benches will have leveling post built in, you will either have 4 or 6 or holes for "jacking screws". Any idea which you have?

 

[Tozguy]

Larry,

The following link shows a picture of the lathe and stand. On page 13 there is a little info on fastening the stand to the floor. Since I don't have the lathe yet, that is all I have for now.

http://www.busybeetools.com/product_manuals/CT043N.pdf

 

[JRS]

You can buy High Impact Polystyrene (HIPS) shims at certain concrete construction supply houses, or from the manufacture, Greenstreaks. They come in many thicknesses. They are used under tilt-up panels to shim to plumb conditions. We set tilt-ups weighing as much as 60,000 pounds and more on these. Look for industrial sites where tilt-ups are being erected and ask the contractor for a few of the shims.

 

[jonbearman]

Try mcmaster carr,they have what you are looking for and it is worth the money.

 

[amlevin]

There was a time in my life when I used to install machinery like this for a living.

First, use a spirit level. far more accurate and responsive than a standard Home Depot "Homer" special.

Next, when leveling, run the jacking screws out so you have 3/4" to 1" clear around the base(s). When the machine is leveled in every direction then build a "form" of 1X2" furring strips to enclose the gap at the base. Make the form about an inch or so larger than the base.

Then go purchase some machine leveling grout. Grainger would be one source. This grout does not shrink and most will cure to over 10,000 PSI strength. Mix the grout to the consistency of pea soup and pour in the "form until the grout comes up and flows about 1/4" higher than the bottom plate.

Let it cure for a couple of days then knock the "form" off. When it comes time to move the lathe it will involve some work with a cold chisel and hand sledge but all the time you're using the lathe you'll appreciate the solid mount.



This will do a far better job of damping vibration than just leaving the base sitting on the jacking screws.

 

[butchlambert]

What is the most important part of "leveling" your lathe. Think about it. All that is really important is to make sure the bed "ways" has no twist. Tell me what difference does tilt forward, backward, or left to right makes other than your coolant might not drain. Not advocating not striving to level it in every plane, but think about the most important thing.

 

[JRS]

What is the most important part of "leveling" your lathe. Think about it. All that is really important is to make sure the bed "ways" has no twist. Tell me what difference does tilt forward, backward, or left to right makes other than your coolant might not drain. Not advocating not striving to level it in every plane, but think about the most important thing.

Perfect reply Butch

 

[FroggyOne2]

Rollie Dad time

 

[treeman]

how can you be sure it is not twisted if it is not level? serious question!

 

[JRS]

how can you be sure it is not twisted if it is not level? serious question!

You need the ways parallel and in the same plane. Getting it as level as possible is certainly not a bad thing, but also not necessary.

 

[amlevin]

What is the most important part of "leveling" your lathe. Think about it. All that is really important is to make sure the bed "ways" has no twist. Tell me what difference does tilt forward, backward, or left to right makes other than your coolant might not drain. Not advocating not striving to level it in every plane, but think about the most important thing.

A lathe with perfectly level ways provides a reference point when setting up some jobs. You can use the machinist's spirit level when setting up some workpieces a lot easier.

NO, it's not necessary but it's a lot easier to do it when you first set up than to wish you had later.

 

[Tozguy]

Butch was carefull to write ''...most important'' and not the ''only important'' thng. I'm enjoying this discussion about the relative importance of things and everybody's comments are food for thought.

Since my project involves a bench lathe in the $3000 to $5000 range, it is not safe to assume that the castings have been aged sufficiently and that the machining was deadnuts everywhere in the manufacturing of the lathe. Although I want to get everything true and level from the ground up, it might simply not be possible. Plus, the lathe might settle a bit with use and need to be releveled and realigned eventually. In this case is there some adjustment possibility between the lathe and stand or do we have to go back to adjustments at the floor level?

If I sound like a greenhorn that's because I am!