Large Primer Pocket 6mms?
- Thread starter MikeMcCasland
- Start date
swd
Silver $$ Contributor
A Dasher or BRX with RL16 will push 107’s over 3000. Mine run around 3030.
If this is just for the short term until components become more available a
6cm makes the most sense, as you already have dies.
There IS one LR primed 6mm in the capacity bracket you're interested in Mike now that I think about it - 6mm Swiss Match.
https://www.6mmbr.com/albums/album_image/1307803/340387.htm
My good friend and shooting buddy Vince Bottomley used this number in the UK for many years, actually a variant called 6SMACK (Ackley Improved). I'm pretty sure it's large primed. Ironically, Vince latterly switched to reforming 6.5X47 Lapua brass to get SR primed cases! He no longer shoots it AFAIK, partly because sixes have become virtually uncompetitive even in mid-range F on our northern England windy range (plus pairs/trio shooting not strings), but more because he has moved from F-Open to FTR, opposite of me.
Whether you'd get brass and dies etc your way, and whether the trouble and expense would be worth it in your current predicament is another matter.
The 6SM was never popular in the UK, or even much known about, but use has died away anyway in that it is very similar in performance / ballistics to the 6-6X47 Lapua. Switching the other way from you to SP case types remains very popular here as we have no problems with small primer supply thanks to European and South American products being in good supply.
At least one AS Forum member has posted recently that there is some sort of ban or restriction on the importation of Murom (Wolf/Tula), S&B, Fiocchi, CBC Magtech etc primers into the US which has made your primer shortages much worse. One member is adamant it was some sort of Obama administration era gun-control measure. I've no idea whether there is anything in that, but as an outsider it certainly seems you've lost all of the popular imported marques in the last few years. Your loss is our gain! (I tell people here to stock up - if there are US import restrictions and they're lifted, we'll soon be as short as you, worse if anything!)
https://www.6mmbr.com/albums/album_image/1307803/340387.htm
My good friend and shooting buddy Vince Bottomley used this number in the UK for many years, actually a variant called 6SMACK (Ackley Improved). I'm pretty sure it's large primed. Ironically, Vince latterly switched to reforming 6.5X47 Lapua brass to get SR primed cases! He no longer shoots it AFAIK, partly because sixes have become virtually uncompetitive even in mid-range F on our northern England windy range (plus pairs/trio shooting not strings), but more because he has moved from F-Open to FTR, opposite of me.
Whether you'd get brass and dies etc your way, and whether the trouble and expense would be worth it in your current predicament is another matter.
The 6SM was never popular in the UK, or even much known about, but use has died away anyway in that it is very similar in performance / ballistics to the 6-6X47 Lapua. Switching the other way from you to SP case types remains very popular here as we have no problems with small primer supply thanks to European and South American products being in good supply.
At least one AS Forum member has posted recently that there is some sort of ban or restriction on the importation of Murom (Wolf/Tula), S&B, Fiocchi, CBC Magtech etc primers into the US which has made your primer shortages much worse. One member is adamant it was some sort of Obama administration era gun-control measure. I've no idea whether there is anything in that, but as an outsider it certainly seems you've lost all of the popular imported marques in the last few years. Your loss is our gain! (I tell people here to stock up - if there are US import restrictions and they're lifted, we'll soon be as short as you, worse if anything!)
I have been shooting 6SLR for about 8 years now and its a fantatsic caliber, if the wind isnt crazy switchy ill run with any 7 or 30 at a 1000m and I have beaten more than a couple at that range but (and it pains me to say it) if I had to do it over now id go for the 6creed for the simple fact that im able to buy Lapua brass at just about any shop. Any of the good 105gr bullets at 3100ish should be all you need, dasher and the likes will also do you good i just prefer to be able to push the pedal a little harder if I need to when im shooting of my stomach.
Saying all this i have been thinking of a 7SLR the last while so maybe forming SLR brass is still in my future for a little while
If you like playing with brass and you spec your chamber correctly you will be able to run lapua 243 brass in the 6slr or even 308 palma brass and with palma brass you have a monster on your hands, fill that case with Norma MRP or N560 if your not worried about barrel life and strap in. I had 105gr VLDs going at 3350fps put of a 28” barrel with amazing accuracy, unfortunitally replacing a barrel over here is around a years worth of paperwork so dropped it to around 3150fps with 108s and N160
Saying all this i have been thinking of a 7SLR the last while so maybe forming SLR brass is still in my future for a little while
If you like playing with brass and you spec your chamber correctly you will be able to run lapua 243 brass in the 6slr or even 308 palma brass and with palma brass you have a monster on your hands, fill that case with Norma MRP or N560 if your not worried about barrel life and strap in. I had 105gr VLDs going at 3350fps put of a 28” barrel with amazing accuracy, unfortunitally replacing a barrel over here is around a years worth of paperwork so dropped it to around 3150fps with 108s and N160
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Laurie
Who is the manufacturer of South American primers?
@243Mendoza CBC in Brazil - Magtech brand in the blue and gold packaging. We've had them here (UK) for maybe 25, 30 years, but arrivals / stocks are rather haphazard. They've never been very popular with precision rifle shooters, ironically because people reckoned that their prices were too low - so they had to be junk. Excellent primers, especially their 7 1/2 SR model IMO/IME.
Industrias Tecnos in Mexico also makes rimfire and centrefire pistol ammo under the Aguila brand which we saw here for a few years a long, long time ago. So they may make primers too, but if so, I never heard of or saw any.
Industrias Tecnos in Mexico also makes rimfire and centrefire pistol ammo under the Aguila brand which we saw here for a few years a long, long time ago. So they may make primers too, but if so, I never heard of or saw any.
Mike, the cartridge that would maximize the 6, clear to 1,000 is the 6 Remington Ackley Improved.
6XC is left. Then center the 6 Remington with a hunting bullet. Then right the fire formed brass with the desirable very long neck, straight wall for volume and shoulder that resists case length growth.
6XC is left. Then center the 6 Remington with a hunting bullet. Then right the fire formed brass with the desirable very long neck, straight wall for volume and shoulder that resists case length growth.
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XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
6SLR. I've written quite a bit about them in here.
No fire forming required. Once fired 6SLR brass has effectively the same case capacity as new 243 brass, you basically lose nothing and gain a 30* shoulder and a longer neck. (there was a difference of less than .5gr in water capacity between the two) It's what the 243 always should have been.
I use WW243 brass. I haven't spent a whole lot of time shooting mine. Best velocities are with things that are fast in other 6s. I use 7828 and easily get 3150 with 105/107 class bullets from a 25" barrel. Could probably go faster but it shot there. Re16 is probably the magic dust for this bullet, but at the time I started with it it was newish to the game.
The only drawback, if it is one, is that the cases are best formed from WW brass. I bought a couple of thousand in bulk a few yrs back and I'm set for life.
243 - 6SLR - 6XC
No fire forming required. Once fired 6SLR brass has effectively the same case capacity as new 243 brass, you basically lose nothing and gain a 30* shoulder and a longer neck. (there was a difference of less than .5gr in water capacity between the two) It's what the 243 always should have been.
I use WW243 brass. I haven't spent a whole lot of time shooting mine. Best velocities are with things that are fast in other 6s. I use 7828 and easily get 3150 with 105/107 class bullets from a 25" barrel. Could probably go faster but it shot there. Re16 is probably the magic dust for this bullet, but at the time I started with it it was newish to the game.
The only drawback, if it is one, is that the cases are best formed from WW brass. I bought a couple of thousand in bulk a few yrs back and I'm set for life.
243 - 6SLR - 6XC
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
@MikeMcCasland one other thing about LP brass. I've seen on a pressure trace that we are getting delayed ignition in a 308 using small primers. If you are running a 6mm with slower powders like Re16, N160, 7828 etc... (and you will want to for the best velocity, stuff slower than 4350 is the norm) then I think LP will achieve better results than a SP.
The attached file is a pressure trace from some load work I was doing a few yrs ago. In this case I was using Tula primers, but I've got similar traces with CCI450s too, I just grabbed this one because it has lots of shots. Note the step at the beginning of the trace, that's delayed ignition. Every trace I've ever run with a 308 using SRPs has that.
The attached file is a pressure trace from some load work I was doing a few yrs ago. In this case I was using Tula primers, but I've got similar traces with CCI450s too, I just grabbed this one because it has lots of shots. Note the step at the beginning of the trace, that's delayed ignition. Every trace I've ever run with a 308 using SRPs has that.
MikeMcCasland
Team Texas F-T/R
That test is very interesting. I run N150 right at (or slightly above) the lower charges in the pressure test. I've shot mine in the 30s and never had a perceptible hang-fire, but these look so quick you probably wouldn't notice it.
I've always kind of assumed if it's below 40 deg and/or you're lighting off more than 40gr, you ideally want an LRP. I just figured Lapua knew more about the stuff than my anecdotes, so ran Palma brass blindly.
Whatever 6mm I go with is probably going to be using slower powders, and 99.9% chance I'll run LRPs with it. If I can get my hands on a large quantity of SRPs, I'll build a BRA like I'd been wanting to.
You running palma brass despite the 'micro' hangfire, or you running LRP stuff?
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MikeMcCasland
Team Texas F-T/R
That's an interesting idea; finding quality brass would be my only concern. I'm not aware of Lapua, ADG, Peterson, Norma etc. making brass for it. After all the extra work I've had to put into my GT brass, I'm not making that mistake again.
That said, it looks like you could chamber it with a .500 freebore and still have plenty of bullet in the neck running 115s.
When Ian Boxall (@Elwood on the forum) ran a 6mm Crusader in GB mid-range F his starting point was RWS 7X57 brass which is very high grade. 7X57mm is the base case for the 6mm Rem and Roberts designs.
Liven The Dream
Gold $$ Contributor
As one that went down the 6mm Rabbit Hole .
6mm Small Hole Big Burn = Short Barrel Life.
Can Hydro Form make Dasher or BRX Brass out of 22-250 ??
My Gunsmith did a .243 1000 yard Prone Rifle. Shot more X's than 10's for 500 Rds.
I would pick a case already made . Fire Forming is a barrel eater. My 2-cents done it.
Best of Luck
6mm Small Hole Big Burn = Short Barrel Life.
Can Hydro Form make Dasher or BRX Brass out of 22-250 ??
My Gunsmith did a .243 1000 yard Prone Rifle. Shot more X's than 10's for 500 Rds.
I would pick a case already made . Fire Forming is a barrel eater. My 2-cents done it.
Best of Luck
This is solid info on the 6SLR. If Robert would have had this cartridge out before Joe had the 6mm Competition Match out I may have been shooting it since '07. I've shot Lapua in my 6CM and I would shoot it in the SLR.
Just some thoughts on the 6XC which I have been shooting for about 7 years
1. Plenty of great LRP brass available at great prices. Either Peterson or Norma
2. The amount of hardware that has been won with this cartridge both here and in Europe is staggering
3. Incredible dies available from David Tubb. I've used all sorts of dies and the Tubb dies are the best !!
4. Get the Manson reamer from David Tubb
5. Shoot the Hbn coated DTAC 115 RBT over 39.5g H4350 and you will be one happy camper.
6. Shoot a 1:7.5 twist barrel
Don't make life difficult. Look at the 6XC records. NRA HP xtc, 300m, 1000yd, etc. It's all been worked out for you. Load up and collect the hardware. My T2K Spec-Tac-Lr shoots .2 MOA all day every day and twice on Sunday.
1. Plenty of great LRP brass available at great prices. Either Peterson or Norma
2. The amount of hardware that has been won with this cartridge both here and in Europe is staggering
3. Incredible dies available from David Tubb. I've used all sorts of dies and the Tubb dies are the best !!
4. Get the Manson reamer from David Tubb
5. Shoot the Hbn coated DTAC 115 RBT over 39.5g H4350 and you will be one happy camper.
6. Shoot a 1:7.5 twist barrel
Don't make life difficult. Look at the 6XC records. NRA HP xtc, 300m, 1000yd, etc. It's all been worked out for you. Load up and collect the hardware. My T2K Spec-Tac-Lr shoots .2 MOA all day every day and twice on Sunday.
A follow up from Laurie's post, RWS 7x57 is probably the strongest and most uniform brass that I have ever used. The 6mm Crusader is a awesome round and very accurate, I dread to think what it could with today's 6mm projectile offerings.
I was using 115 Dtacs, 3100 fps was a breeze in UK conditions. I used VV N560 and RL25 which probably attributed to a short barrel life, but sure was fun. The first barrel went to 1100 rounds but proper accuracy dropped off after 800 rounds and the second barrel lasted 600 rounds, the bore looked perfect and I completely re-worked the load but it never shot again.
Deep pockets and a sense of adventure are needed but it was fun.
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