Lapua cases 308 Primer types?

[brccd]

Going to try some new Lapua cartridges and just ordered a batch in 308 with large primer!

So looking to others for some input why the Lapua 308 has two variants, a small primer version and large primer version?

What is the performance difference between the two?

I would like to try these to see how much difference there is between the Lapua and something like Lake City (NATO), or Federal cases.

I see in a number of discussions how Lapua are the best, so wanted to try them.

The next question: Which bullet to use with it. Typically using Hornady 150gr, or 168gr. Recommendations?

I will be trying them with a Savage 110 Storm, and also a Mossberg Patriot LR.

Using mostlly for target shooting 100 yds and out to 200 yds. Its the new hobby! No ranges offer anything further near me.

Thx for any feedback.

 

[Laurie]

I looked at the pros and cons of SRP vs LRP cases where both are provided here:

https://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=4072

In a Savage action, you have a high probability of serious primer cratering and blanking (piercing) with the SRP option.

For shooting at 200 yards, I'd stick to standard LRP cases. There are many bullets that perform very well in the 308 at these distances, the 168gn Sierra MatchKing being the best known and a long-term favourite. The older model 155gn Sierra MK (p/n 2155) is a superb bullet too. Berger 150gn Flat-base match bullets are very good at these distances, as is the 155.5gn Berger BT, but are more expensive. Avoid VLDs and other secant-ogive designs as they are less easy to 'tune' in most rifles and you don't need the higher BCs they (in theory) provide.

Unless things have changed very recently, there are no Lapua 308 Win 'Palma' SRP cases to be found anyway as Lapua temporarily suspended production of this model (and others) over two years ago in the wake of demand pressures in Europe arising from the Ukraine war. The Lapua 308 case is a superbly made product in either form (as are those from Peterson and other specialist manufacturers). Whether you see any precision benefits at 100/200 yards is debatable, but if loads/pressures are kept to sensible levels, they'll last a very long time giving a lot of loadings.

 

[Florida Wally]

I looked at the pros and cons of SRP vs LRP cases where both are provided here:

https://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=4072

In a Savage action, you have a high probability of serious primer cratering and blanking (piercing) with the SRP option.

For shooting at 200 yards, I'd stick to standard LRP cases. There are many bullets that perform very well in the 308 at these distances, the 168gn Sierra MatchKing being the best known and a long-term favourite. The older model 155gn Sierra MK (p/n 2155) is a superb bullet too. Berger 150gn Flat-base match bullets are very good at these distances, as is the 155.5gn Berger BT, but are more expensive. Avoid VLDs and other secant-ogive designs as they are less easy to 'tune' in most rifles and you don't need the higher BCs they (in theory) provide.

Unless things have changed very recently, there are no Lapua 308 Win 'Palma' SRP cases to be found anyway as Lapua temporarily suspended production of this model (and others) over two years ago in the wake of demand pressures in Europe arising from the Ukraine war. The Lapua 308 case is a superbly made product in either form (as are those from Peterson and other specialist manufacturers). Whether you see any precision benefits at 100/200 yards is debatable, but if loads/pressures are kept to sensible levels, they'll last a very long time giving a lot of loadings.

The 308 Lapua Palma cases have become available again here in the US.

 

[dgeesaman]

Based on my experience with SRP 6.5 Creedmoor cases, I would stick with LRP. With the Creedmoor I had cold weather ignition issues even using a high brisance primer, if the powder was not full on volume.

If someday you get the LRP really really dialed in, the SRP might shoot better in some situations and be worth experimenting.

 

[clowdis]

The small primer .308 brass came about as a request from the US Palma team, particularly Tom Whitaker I think. The thought is that the small primers have a smaller standard deviation in flame heat (brisance). Most people will not be able to tell any difference. As far as loading, the SP brass will require a couple tenths more powder to maintain the same velocity as the large primer brass. For bullets at <200 yds you can use about anything that shoots well.

 

[Nvcnvc]

The way it was explained to me by a successful long range (F-TR) shooter is that the SRP has more material around the base so the cases will last longer if you "hot rod" them so you can shoot the 200.20x bullets at high speeds. Many people are using ethnic CCI 450 small magnum printers and have no problems with ignition. Many shooters also report smaller ES and SDs with SRP.
YMMV of course.

 

[brccd]

Thanks for feedback! For me, for now, think I would stick with the Large Primer version. Keeps reloading setup simple. All tools already in place for that. I'm not sure for me, in a 100 to 300yd range I will be able tell much difference. I will admit I am not an expert. Sooting not bad but, maybe once I try these on the range, lots more practice I could be surprised! I will try matching up the Lapua cases with the Sierra 155gr that Laurie mentioned. And there, are two versions of those! hollow point, and tipped...thinking to go with the tipped version.

 

[Precisionhunter417]

I shoot only Lapua SRP Palma brass and my SD with CCI 450 is usually 5-6fps at the target and es is under 12 at the firing line. I find it last several firings (6-10) if I anneal and minimize the shoulder bump by setting head space based on the batch of brass. I want to keep the dimensions within 2-5 thousandths of growth from the first firing and bump back to original dimensions when I resize.

Shooting 200.20X @ 2800 FPS out of a 29" Heavy Varmint Barrel.

 

[Laurie]

The small primer .308 brass came about as a request from the US Palma team, particularly Tom Whitaker I think. The thought is that the small primers have a smaller standard deviation in flame heat (brisance). Most people will not be able to tell any difference. As far as loading, the SP brass will require a couple tenths more powder to maintain the same velocity as the large primer brass. For bullets at <200 yds you can use about anything that shoots well.

Yes, that's how the type came into being 15 or more years ago, then slowly spread to other cartridges and disciplines. In the 1970/80s, Remington made 308 Win UBBR (aka 308 Win 'Competition') cases, a high-capacity, thin-walled SRP version intended to be reformed into the various BR cases. Many people tried to make them work in the original 308 Win form, but it seems that the primers / powders of the day didn't give clean ignition with mis and hangfires. Tom continued to experiment and eventually made the combination work and persuaded the US Palma Team managers to have another look at the concept. One thing led to another and Lapua came on board with what were initially limited-run experimental models and after a year or two of successful trials and competitive shooting by team members on US rifle ranges plus the company's in-house testing put it into general production and on open sale. When the Palma teams announced the move to SRP brass for the upcoming season and a World Championship meeting somewhere or other, sheets of flame broke out with enormously long threads on the ['US Palma Teams] Long-Range Forum with virtually no posts in favour. (Been there, done that - and it don't work, no matter what you say was the main complaint.) The correspondence must still be on the Long Range Forum somewhere, but if so, I lost track of it years ago.

In some combinations, there is a much greater difference than a couple of tenths grains in loads that give same MVs. When I did a series of primer tests in SRP Palma brass yonks ago with the old 167gn Lapua Scenar and Viht N150, it needed an extra 1.4gn powder to produce the same MVs, Lapua cases used for both types. (The LRP wouldn't shoot as small groups either - very strange as this bullet/powder combination usually gave good results in the pre-Berger era.)

https://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=2621

.......... and scroll down.

 

[brccd]

One last part of the puzzle question... If I will have, Lapua brass, Sierra bullets, then lastly, which powder is recommended to help complete this puzzle? ( there are so many!)

I have been using Hodgdon Varget and H4895.

I also reload for .223...and have been using the H4895 for those. Used this only until recently, for 308 as well.

But, now trying to refine things (more accuracy/range), what are suggestions for powder selection to help zero in with Lapua and Sierra components!?

Certain powders and primers seem to be in shortages as well now...

Love all the discussion and links you guys have provided...thanks for all of it...lots to review!

 

[brccd]

A little "googling" and see one powder mentioned a few places is IMR 4064? Is this a good option for use with Lapua and Sierra combo? (thinking of the Sierra Tipped Match King 155gr in this equation!)

 

[HTSmith]

One last part of the puzzle question... If I will have, Lapua brass, Sierra bullets, then lastly, which powder is recommended to help complete this puzzle? ( there are so many!)

I have been using Hodgdon Varget and H4895.

I also reload for .223...and have been using the H4895 for those. Used this only until recently, for 308 as well.

But, now trying to refine things (more accuracy/range), what are suggestions for powder selection to help zero in with Lapua and Sierra components!?

Certain powders and primers seem to be in shortages as well now...

Love all the discussion and links you guys have provided...thanks for all of it...lots to review!

Vihtavuori powders in my experience are high quality, available, and reasonably priced (at least by today's crazy prices). I'm not much of a 308 guy, but I know folks that are having success with N140 and N150

 

[clowdis]

brccd,
If you have Varget you are good to go with .308 up to 200 grain bullets. The 4895 will work too with lighter bullets. You'll find the .308 one of the easiest calibers to load for.

 

[brccd]

Recieved 1st box of Lapua cases (100)...looked like a box of candy!


Getting Hornady ELD Match and Sierra MatchKing 155 grain bullets tomorrow or the next day to load.
Primed 50 of these and will try some FMJBT 150gr on a few also to compare with the other two.
Will be using Varget powder with these. This hobby is starting to cost me some $$$ ! HA.

I will also have a bunch of Lake City case to work with as well.

A bunch of the Lake City brass I have after looking at some of what I purchased 10 yeara ago, are cases from 1964! 60 years old! Some cases even a few years earlier. Had a bunch from 2015, 1988...using those to try comparing.

FYI - the Lapua cases fit perfectly\cleanly in the hornady cartridge gauge.

Found after sizing the LC cases, some case rims need some minor sanding to allow it to fit in that gauge. Seems like the Rim on some of these case have been marked when ejecting at some point. Some of these fit in the Sheridan slotted gauge, even there some dont and need to be cleaned up.

 

[brccd]

Update...weather got a little nice, got a chance to go to the range and try out the Lapua and Sierra bullets. It was 48 deg, winds high, 15 to 20 gusting to 35mph.
.308, Lapua cases, with sierra tipped matchking 155gr , 42 gr varget. Using my Mossberg Patriot LR, at 100Yds to zero things in. Think I found my recipe.



I was pretty happy!

Also used the savage 110 storm, worked well, not as accurate as the Mossberg!

Went to 200yrd positions and they had iron plates there and was ringing them on demand!

Started getting windier and colder, sun going down, and was time to go home.