Lapua Brass Problems

[Devildog99]

After only a couple of firings, I am seeing split necks and cracks in the shoulder from a new batch of Lapua 6mm BR brass. This is new brass, came in a plastic box as opposed to their old cardboard box. Lot number is P00487801. Never had any problems with previous Lapua brass. The problems are present regardless of sizing method...Full Length (Redding Dies) or Neck Sizing (Wilson). Case necks were not turned, I have a .272 neck in the chamber. Have been shooting relatively lite loads, first 29.0 grains, then 28.0 grns, H322. The bullet is seated short of the rifling, a 68 grn Berger. In short, all was fine till this last batch of brass. Anyone have any ideas...or did Lapua's quality just slip on this batch. Case neck thickness on the old brass averaged about .013. The new troublesome brass had a neck wall thickness averaging .012. Several cases were measured, they definitely have changed their production specs.

 

[Kenny474]

If the rifle hasn't had similar issues in the past, I would think you have some defective brass. Maybe it missed annealing? I have heard of necks turned to .010" without any issue, so I doubt that .012" is going to be the reason for splitting. I would call and see about a refund or exchange for new brass. I have never had any issue with Lapua before, so I am unsure of who to call, but I believe they have an office in the US.
For the price you pay for their brass you deserve top quality, not factory second rubbish that splits after a few firings.
I would try sending them a message here: http://www.vihtavuori-lapua.com/contact_us.php

I use Lapua .223 brass in my .222 (along with 5.56 NATO military brass) and have never had any issue even after resizing it, though I do anneal and do a quick turning after resizing, trimming and the initial fireform. I have found it to be very consistent, though my brass is a few years old now and all 200 were purchased at the same time.

 

[7stubby]

I just worked over 100 peices for my Dasher and this brass was in the cardboard box. I had 2 split in the necks when I was necking them up to 6.5mm and then had 2 that had a split in the shoulder area. Thats like 3-4 bucks worth of brass that wont be able to use. Oh well.

 

[Steve Blair]

I have 500 of the same lot, plastic box, but have not fired any. The resolution of your problem certainly interests me. I am so accustomed to Lapua quality that none of the five boxes were opened. After examining ten from one box and comparing it to ten from an earlier lot (P00426202), here are my observations.

1. Annealing appears normal and the same.
2. Four had drilling artifacts around the flash hole. This is easy resolved with a 1/8" drill and a light hand spin. Other Lapua lots occasionally show this.
3. Weight ran from 124.74 to 125.49, an ES of .98 and SD .394. All that means that at 99% confidence, the total population is likely to vary less than 2.5 grains. The earlier lot ran from 125.24 to 126.70, an ES of 1.46 and SD .461. At almost 99% confidence the total population is likely to vary approximately 2.8 grains, a little worse than the new lot.
4. The necks ran from .0118 to .0125. The earlier lot ran from .0127 to .0133. About the same variation but the older necks were almost .001 thicker. That would mean about a .0016 diametral change.

My measurements show that the new brass is a little lighter, almost 1 grain. The neck thickness could be a potential problem but should not show on just one or two firings. If some of the cases were at minimum thickness in a .272 chamber, about .005 expansion would be allowed. New brass should have no problem with this. Factory chambers often allow far more expansion. I turn my brass to .0125 (older lot) for a .272 chamber and will turn to .0115
for a .269 chamber. Maybe I will keep the new lot separate and only shoot it in the .269 chambers. I have two identical Bartlein 6BR HV barrels fitted to a Stiller Viper SS, so I will be shooting it for some time. Now, if Bill Shehane would just ship my Viper back, I could actually shoot it.

 

[750k2]

Uh oh - I have 500 of P00487802 plastic box
Guess I'll have to wait til I get the rifle done to find out if
I'm gonna have problems.
Figures - first try with the BR and this pops up.

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

Lapua and Vihtavuori are both owned by Kaltron. You can e-mail them here: http://www.vihtavuori-lapua.com/contact_us.php

Uhm no, Kaltron does not own Lapua or Vihtavouri. Kaltron is simply one of the US importers and distributers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nammo

 

[Devildog99]

Thanks for the input guys. I did send an email to the address for the distributer, kindly posted by a couple of you. Probably need to send the email to Lapua...will start looking for their email address. Just from a safety standpoint I am disappointed with Lapua...cracks in the shoulder with mild loads really concerns me.

 

[eitmsmf]

Don't take this the wrong way but numbers would help here. How many firings and how many cases? How many rounds through the chamber? Are you sure its not a headspace issue? I made 350 pieces of 30BR brass for this year and lost around 10 while I was necking them up. Some lots have been more apt do split over the years but never saw any pattern to it. Just trying to get to the bottom of this as I have just recieved a full case of the next lot up from this one.

 

[Devildog99]

To eitmsmf...no problem. Cases have been shot twice. The rifle is a 6 BR, so there has been no additional case forming...as say for a 30BR. With every reloading cycle, assuming I fire all 100 cases...three to five are lost due to split necks or shoulders. Neck sizing only, still results in split cases...so I have eliminated the error of excess headspace from overly aggressive full length sizing. This is a new rifle...maybe 500 rounds down the tube. No brass "issues" with an earlier batch of lapua...reloading techniques have remained the same.

 

[LRPV]

I'm on my first 6br rifle project right now. I have 200 P00487802 plastic box. The mouths were not all round, dented up a little, so I ran through a die just like I do with Rem and Win new brass in other calibers and loaded them. Have shot 155 of them once so far and have not sized any of them yet again. Going to wait till I get them all gone through once. I didn't bother to measure or weigh any of them because I have read on here so many times that they are ready to load out of the box. I got 200 22-250 at the same time P00499001 and had to do the same with them. I am struggling with working up loads for this thing too. I thought it would be much easier, but that wouldn't be any fun.

 

[LRPV]

Just an update. On the second firing with this 6br brass, I had one split neck and two with splits in the shoulder. I am using an unmodified Forester FL die which does work them way too much as fired brass is measuring .273 and with the de-capping rod and sizing ball removed they are .258 after running them into the die. I guess this can explain the neck split but I thought it would have taken more than 2 firings to start splitting as I use forester dies the same way on all my stuff and haven't had problems yet with Rem and Win brass. The shoulders I don't get at all because I didn't bump them at all.

 

[1shot]

Along those same lines quality wise, but in a different caliber, my partner and I have bought 600 pieces of Lapua 6.5x55 brass and in two different rifles the brass has exhibited the same abnormalities. 1st, a large variance in rim thickness, but most importantly after one firing, a longitudinal split over 2” long running up the case body. OK, now some of you are saying, 1 out of 100 is an acceptable loss count, the rest of you are thinking WTH?? All I can tell you for sure is the cases are all with-in .6 of a grain in weight variance, and no other problems have been noted. BTW, all of the brass is of the same lot ## and has been fired from two different rifles, both with after market barrels with chambers cut with the same reamer. My thought is the QC at Lapua is less across the board than some of us are used to expecting from the company. Of course, my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

 

[ShooterBob]

I'm also very interested in what others experience with this lot of brass. I've got 500 of Lot P00487801. I'm doing load development now for a 6BR .272 neck with 56 of the cases that weighed 125.6 and 125.7 grns. They were weighed on a Pact BBKII and I realize they are outside the range measured by sleepygator and for this I have no explanation. The 500 I weighed ranged from 124.2 to 126.0
I did not neck turn and the loaded rounds measure .268 at the neck and I'm resizing using Redding dies with a .267 bushing. I've shot all 56 3 times and so far have no case splits. I'll shoot the 4th time this Friday. I've been using 60-75 gr bullets of various flavors with Benchmark or 8208XBR. The loads are stout. This is my first 6BR project as well and if this long awaited brass turns out to be sh**t I'm going to be a very unhappy camper.

 

[fieldratsniper]

i just got my first 6br rifle done and i plan on neck sizing only (until they get tight when chambering). Im using standard redding dies...

i got 100 pieces in the new plastic box. ive only fired 56 rounds during load development. with the once fired brass i haven't had any problems yet. My brass has been worked a little bit though......I neck sized the brass to uniform the neck, then fired them, then neck sized again with no splits.

ive got a 272 chamber. my loaded ammo is measuring .266" (obviously no neck turning at all). the neck wall thickness is .12"

hopefully i dont have any of the problems with split cases. BUT!!!! i was not particularly happy with the quality control of the lapua brass (you can read about that here if you care to, http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum/index.php/topic,3749643.msg35871614.html#msg35871614).



I will keep you guys posted on how my brass holds up. my load load is as follows:

105gr Amax (1-7.5" twist bartlein 5R barrel)
29.0gr H4895
2.310" coal (.15" off the lands)
2840 fps

Jeremy

 

[ShooterBob]

Here are some pics of the type of defects I'm seeing. I'm guessing defects such as these occur in about 20% of the cases. So far they I'm only seeing them in the shoulder area.

This is the first time I've tried to post a picture. Hope this works, if not back to the drawing board aka Help Menu

 

[ShooterBob]

Another pic?

 

[ShooterBob]

This is the more typical type.

 

[Steve Blair]

Bob,
I think that "defect" is the operable word in this instance. Contact Lapua about replacement. They should be very interested to obtain the cases and determine the root cause. That way, defects like this can be prevented from reaching their customers.

 

[Kenny474]

Those are the strangest looking shoulder cracks I have ever seen.

I agree Lapua needs to see those, something is definitely wrong somewhere. And for the price they charge you deserve quality to match. If 20% of your 500 are junk, than you have essentially bought a whole box of junk brass. At $80 a box that's unacceptable.

I really hope the 100 I just ordered don't have this issue.

 

[LWolken]

You sure thats not a fold from say a kernel of powder in your chamber or die which dents the sholder then after firing irons out? I had this happen once when I pulled a live round from the chamber and dumped powder in the action. It was ball powder and the next couple cases upon extraction had a dent I loaded them a second time and they looked like that after firing, I threw them away just to be safe. I bought 1000 rds of 6mbr brass from bruno about three years ago and they have been golden, no split necks nothing. I kept 600 for myself and parted out the rest to some friends no failures from my brass none that I have heard of from my buddies.



Lance