Somebody asked me about using regular Lapua 308 brass (large primer pocket) versus Lapua 308 Palma brass (small primer pocket) for F Class shooting. Honestly I didn't realize there was the Palma version. Has anyone tried the Palma brass for F Class shooting and compared it to the regular larger pocket version? Any good?
Lapua 308 Palma Brass with small primer
- Thread starter MJT
- Start date
thanks .. just what I needed to know.
coldboreshot
Silver $$ Contributor
The idea behind the smaller primer pocket is to retain the structural integrity of the pockets a little longer than large pocket. I believe, it also offers a more controlled burn through the flash hole of the smaller pocket.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
I haven't personally noticed any major difference in ES/SD using Palma brass, but the smaller flash hole certainly might make a difference. How much of an effect it has may also be primer-specific.
The Palma brass primer pockets will definitely take higher pressure, and for a longer time than Std brass. I understand ignition with the small rifle primer .308 brass can sometimes be an issue in lower temps (20s to 30s or lower), but have never personally had that issue because I haven't used it in temps that low. However, something to be aware of.
Once you start in with the Palma brass in F-TR, you'll likely never want to go back. I have maintained one .308 F-TR rifle and load with Std brass simply because it shoots well and I have a large number of Lg rifle primers to use up. After that, it will be all Palma brass.
The Palma brass primer pockets will definitely take higher pressure, and for a longer time than Std brass. I understand ignition with the small rifle primer .308 brass can sometimes be an issue in lower temps (20s to 30s or lower), but have never personally had that issue because I haven't used it in temps that low. However, something to be aware of.
Once you start in with the Palma brass in F-TR, you'll likely never want to go back. I have maintained one .308 F-TR rifle and load with Std brass simply because it shoots well and I have a large number of Lg rifle primers to use up. After that, it will be all Palma brass.
The benefits of the 'Palma' case are well understood now and as others say, there is getting on for 100% adoption by top level FTR competitors these days. (And don't forget the sling shooters, as the 'Palma' name isn't cosmetic - the cases were developed by Lapua at the request of the US Palma teams which were also their first users. In gratitude, the Palma teams allowed Lapua to adopt the name - a permission that is only very rarely given to outside companies as the trademarked name is jealously and rigorously guarded.)
The brass is often reformed for other uses such are the benefits on offer - 7mm-08, 260 Rem, and before the new small primer 6.5 Creedmoor case appeared that application too.
If you do adopt the case, be aware of a few issues:
the small (1.5mm = 0.059") flash-hole requires a smaller than standard decapper pin. A standard pin may break or bend / get stuck in the flash-hole / damage the flash-hole.
use magnum or BR primers.
loads often need minor retuning. Most, not all, powders see a small MV reduction over the same load in Lapua large primer brass and need around a half-grain charge weight increase. (IME, both types of Lapua case are identical, ignition arrangements and the usual lot to lot variations aside, so there is no change in internal capacity.)
alongside the low temperatures issue, there are one or two powders that may produce hang or misfires in the brass. I have had this with Hodgdon CFE223 spherical grade.
The brass is often reformed for other uses such are the benefits on offer - 7mm-08, 260 Rem, and before the new small primer 6.5 Creedmoor case appeared that application too.
If you do adopt the case, be aware of a few issues:
the small (1.5mm = 0.059") flash-hole requires a smaller than standard decapper pin. A standard pin may break or bend / get stuck in the flash-hole / damage the flash-hole.
use magnum or BR primers.
loads often need minor retuning. Most, not all, powders see a small MV reduction over the same load in Lapua large primer brass and need around a half-grain charge weight increase. (IME, both types of Lapua case are identical, ignition arrangements and the usual lot to lot variations aside, so there is no change in internal capacity.)
alongside the low temperatures issue, there are one or two powders that may produce hang or misfires in the brass. I have had this with Hodgdon CFE223 spherical grade.
Turbulent Turtle
F-TR competitor
I switched to Palma brass a couple years back and made sure to have the proper decapping pin from Redding before depriming.
Nice write-up from Laurie, as usual. The only other product I know that is using the name Palma is the Sierra .308 155 HPBT bullet, number 2156 (and the 2155 before that). There's a whole history behind that instance.
Nice write-up from Laurie, as usual. The only other product I know that is using the name Palma is the Sierra .308 155 HPBT bullet, number 2156 (and the 2155 before that). There's a whole history behind that instance.
H4350 is harder to ignite than Varget or H4895, and depending on your barrel length, you might see better velocities with H4350 for 200-230 grain bullets.
Hopefully others will give there experiences, but I tend to recommend large rifle primers if you intend to use H4350.
Hopefully others will give there experiences, but I tend to recommend large rifle primers if you intend to use H4350.
When Remington made this small primer pocket brass 25+/- years ago, their logic was less brisance in the ignition. I used it in my HBR 308 with success. 4895 ignited easily and I got the same velocity with a grain less, and much rounder groups. Eliminated the occasional flyer as well.
There is a very good reason that a certain shooter in AZ was hoarding every piece of Rem 30BR brass that he could get his hands on back in the day. I assure you it wasn't because of the high internal volume of the case alone. The ability to get ballistic uniformity with a low brisance primer was the key. What is more is that finding very uniform lots of small rifle primers for that application is infinitely easier than finding a uniform lot of large rifle primers. Cannot tell you how many lots of LR's I used to scour.
If he's interested in that 30BR brass, I still have a few boxes left out in the shop. We won't get into names here...
Anyone know what size primers fit in the palma brass
Warren Dean
Team Savage F-TR
Small rifle
Thank you so much
D-4297
Gold $$ Contributor
And then they ( Remington ) turned around and made the 7 1/2 BR primer . Rated as virtually the highest brisance's of any primer made . And they work extremely well in .308 for TR using 4895 , Varget , 4350 , and both IMR and Accurate 4064 . Unfortunately they are now made of unobtanium .
Agree, the Remington 71/2 primers work the best for me with H4895 with 155's in palma brass, I was using Fed 205M's quite happily 'til I tried the 71/2's. The 205M's are still my 'go to' primer for Varget and the heavier pills.
When decapping, you'll need one specifically for the palma case, http://www.pmatool.com/pma-lapua-sm...niformer-complete-w-handle-and-power-adapter/ as this:
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