LAKE CITY .223 BRASS AVAILABILITY

[searcher]

Years ago, every once in a while, virgin, unfired Lake City brass would pop up (usually offered through Midsouth Shooters Supply or Natchez Shooters Supply as I recall). I bought a bunch of it for making new .20 Practical brass and to run in some of my other .223 A/R's. While some folks said it was likely "second run" brass, I could find no fault with it at all. Has been a long time since seeing it out there until this week. MidwayUSA has it on sale for about $60.00/250 pieces. Thought I'd let you "Lake city fans" know about it.

 

[RegionRat]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1027123287

I don't know anything about this brass, just posted the link to make it easy to see what searcher is saying.

I used to buy the bulk LC virgin brass back when it used to be available, and that was decent quality brass. If you have been at this long enough, you have seen WIN brass quality go up and down. Lately, I have seen more down than up, so I hope this stuff is actually from LC and not the current typical WIN.

If anybody has their eyes on this, it would be good to hear a review of the quality.

 

[searcher]

I may be incorrect on this - but I assume Winchester is running the Lake City plant now? Just guessing here - but perhaps with the new production going on for the new mil 6.8 brass - they ended up with a temporary over-supply of 5.56?

 

[RegionRat]

I may be incorrect on this - but I assume Winchester is running the Lake City plant now? Just guessing here - but perhaps with the new production going on for the new mil 6.8 brass - they ended up with a temporary over-supply of 5.56?

I've been retired for a while now, so I don't swing through there any more.... but those production lines for 5.56 were dedicated machines. It was tough enough to keep them maintained, I can't imagine they would have the extra gorillas to change them over and back again, but I am just making noise.
Before I retired, I was under the impression than the 6.8 brass was going to be new expansion of facilities to keep them running in parallel. Who can say these days with the new breed of managers.

 

[jelenko]

Just fyi.
I bought a couple K of virgin LC back in 2009/10. Started having case separations on second firing with mid range loads. As I remember, the primer pockets opened up at the 3rd or 4th firing.
I came to the conclusion that new LC brass is in some way rejects.

 

[searcher]

Just fyi.
I bought a couple K of virgin LC back in 2009/10. Started having case separations on second firing with mid range loads. As I remember, the primer pockets opened up at the 3rd or 4th firing.
I came to the conclusion that new LC brass is in some way rejects.

That is interesting. I've worn out around 2,000 pieces of the new LC brass and never had issues at all. I ran almost of it in A/R's and got my "usual" 7 to 9 loadings, annealing after every 3 shots or so. Definitely didn't last shorter than the once-fired, of which I've gone through many thousands.

 

[Doug Casner]

When I worked at lake city , back in the dark ages, They didnt sell brass . It was all property of the u.s. gov. Doug

 

[Bill K]

Just fyi.
I bought a couple K of virgin LC back in 2009/10. Started having case separations on second firing with mid range loads. As I remember, the primer pockets opened up at the 3rd or 4th firing.
I came to the conclusion that new LC brass is in some way rejects.

Or could it have been from loads with high pressure and setting the shoulder back to far on resizing, which caused the case separation and loose primer pockets. Can occur with any brand of brass, when pushed to hard on it's limits.

 

[markm87]

Win headstamped brass has always been less desirable than LC brass for me. The primer pockets haven't held up as long on Win brass.

I still load it, but usually it's one firing and then into the scrap bucket.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Interesting. Lake City announced some time ago they would no longer sell to the public.

 

[searcher]

Win headstamped brass has always been less desirable than LC brass for me. The primer pockets haven't held up as long on Win brass.

I still load it, but usually it's one firing and then into the scrap bucket.

Are you speaking of the .556 Winchester headstamp Mil brass? Man - to get only one firing on ANY brass leads me to believe you like your loads a bit warm? I have never fired any brass that didn't last at least three or four loadings - though I don't run mine at the "top", nor do I use the heavies.

 

[searcher]

When I worked at lake city , back in the dark ages, They didnt sell brass . It was all property of the u.s. gov. Doug

Seems the first time I saw the unfired LC for sale was around 15 years +/- ago. I'm guessing when a new contract was signed to run the plant or renew a contract - there must have been some contractual changes as to what the operator could do. Just guessing.... Glad to get it, though. I do wonder about the prospects of future availability, given political mood and the change to 6.8 ammo - but I'm guessing the 5.56 will be continued to be made for some time, regardless.

 

[L.Sherm]

I've shot i dont know how many thousands of LC brass in 20P and 20 VT never separated a case yet and I don't run my stuff " light" not real hot either

 

[3Ackleys]

When I worked at lake city , back in the dark ages, They didnt sell brass . It was all property of the u.s. gov. Doug

Winchester's contract lets them sell anything that is excess production over contract needs. On another note they (Win.) has purchased equipment to increase primer production capacity at L.C.

 

[RegionRat]

Like all other things in our country's law history, the FAR and DFAR Regulations (Federal Acquisition and Defense Federal Acquisition Regulations) have been around a while and they have evolved and changed.

When a DFAR purchase order is awarded, it gets a priority ranking in a code on the header called the DX rating. A DX1 is higher priority than a DX2 for example.

Well, there is this thing called a DX0 that is tantamount to declaring Eminent Domain. When you have been issued a DX0 priority contract, you must apply the priority in facility, material, and manpower to fill that order or they have their lawyers and The Guard on your office doorway in the morning.... I had this dropped on me several times. It came with the authority for me to declare it on my subs as well.

Now, a Gov Owned Contractor Operated (GOCO) plant like LC is no different. When the purchase order is escalated to DX0, they cannot use materials for other contracts, so that certainly means they cannot get to commercial sales. However...

Once they have filled the DX0 order, they return to more normal prioritizations. So, when you have seen ammo droughts and primer droughts, etc., and think back on those times, a lot of those were times when the GOV had those places tied up for DX0 level priorities. Not all of them, but most of them. The LC plant has sold first run MIL brass commercially for a long time, once their DX orders have been filled.

 

[Walt Krafft]

The 6.8x51 cases require completely different machines than 556. They are building a completely new building for it. I have been very happy with Starline 556 brass.

 

[jelenko]

Or could it have been from loads with high pressure and setting the shoulder back to far on resizing, which caused the case separation and loose primer pockets. Can occur with any brand of brass, when pushed to hard on it's limits.

Right. As I mentioned, these were mid range loads. And, I set the should back 1 1/2 thousanth +/- 1 thousandth.

 

[Doug Casner]

Whats considered 2nd. run? If was out of govt. spec. it was scrap. If it was in govt. spec. the govt. bought it. Cant figure 2nd run. If they are selling scrap for 2nd run, whatever that is, Id stay away from that stuff. Doug

 

[markm87]

Are you speaking of the .556 Winchester headstamp Mil brass? Man - to get only one firing on ANY brass leads me to believe you like your loads a bit warm? I have never fired any brass that didn't last at least three or four loadings - though I don't run mine at the "top", nor do I use the heavies.

Yes. I seat with the Sinclair hand priming tool, and the once fired Win mil brass is usually much looser feeling compared to LC brass.

 

[RegionRat]

Whats considered 2nd. run? If was out of govt. spec. it was scrap. If it was in govt. spec. the govt. bought it. Cant figure 2nd run. If they are selling scrap for 2nd run, whatever that is, Id stay away from that stuff. Doug

I agree. The production lines at LC have a pretty strict QC plan and scrap isn't used or re-sold as far as the process was concerned. Out of tolerance was re-cycled for the brass.

You can do a lot worse than real LC virgin brass. Compared to the vast majority of commercial brass, I would rather start with LC or one of those rare imported clones of it, than most of the commercial brass.
(ETA: Lapua and original plant Norma are in a different class, but now there is Norma brass that comes from lesser plants too.)

I will admit to having some mixed results with Starline, but they have always taken care of it and made it right. The latest WIN 204 Ruger brass I tried this spring/summer, was a problem and had a high reject rate due to poor quality material that ruined the necks. That stuff does not come from the LC plant.